Author Topic: Books on Civil and Land.  (Read 19014 times)

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scout

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2008, 01:13:55 PM »
And part of the reason the Book should NOT be titled MASTERING.

While there any many places in the text I would like to expand, Part Builder is not one of them. I do not believe that a person needs to know part builder in order to "Master" Civil 3D.

As I learned last summer while working with Autodesk on the part builder exercises that have been added to help for 2009, a watered down version of the content builder technology was borrowed from ABS/MEP with minimal thought. It has not been improved nor optimized since it was added for Civil 3D 2006.

After wasting a good 3 weeks of my life trying to get part builder to do things that it was never meant to do, I officially wrote it off after that project. I wouldn't waste any more energy trying to master it, and I would advise users to avoid it as well.

What I did try to build into chapter 14 was a workflow for planning a pipe network including questions to ask yourself when deciding whether or not you need custom parts, specifically the questions on pages 474 and 477.

scout

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2008, 01:14:37 PM »
Shame they can't embrace a sense of humor! Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make it untrue.
Explain the programming logic?  Just because the programming logic makes sense to them, does not a functioning application make. How about embrace that they are human, can and do make mistakes, drop the damned ego and fix the problems.  I am sure that this type of corporate culture would result in far more INOVATION and PROFITS for their share holders. Not to mention more satisfied, loyal customers.



My only question for you is- Why do you still use this product?

scout

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2008, 01:22:48 PM »
Shame they can't embrace a sense of humor! Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make it untrue.
Explain the programming logic?  Just because the programming logic makes sense to them, does not a functioning application make. How about embrace that they are human, can and do make mistakes, drop the damned ego and fix the problems.  I am sure that this type of corporate culture would result in far more INOVATION and PROFITS for their share holders. Not to mention more satisfied, loyal customers.

Yelling at the people who write the program based on specifications handed down to them from management (Dev) or who are testing the program as written (QA) is not helpful. It just makes them not want to listen to anything you have to say. If you listen first and find ways to make their jobs easier, you are far more likely to get real answers and learn more about what influences the direction that the product takes.

dana




mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2008, 01:26:30 PM »
Shame they can't embrace a sense of humor! Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make it untrue.
Explain the programming logic?  Just because the programming logic makes sense to them, does not a functioning application make. How about embrace that they are human, can and do make mistakes, drop the damned ego and fix the problems.  I am sure that this type of corporate culture would result in far more INOVATION and PROFITS for their share holders. Not to mention more satisfied, loyal customers.



My only question for you is- Why do you still use this product?


Exactly the questions a number of users, and their employers are asking themselves right now! Exactly because of unresponsiveness to real issues and user demands, (leading Zeros anyone), part builder that works, good corridor surface boundaries, survey that works, real project management. I am not in the minority in my questions, about the product or autodesk, mostly they are a distillation of the questions my clients pose to me.

And yet I do remain enthusiastic about what C3D can do, if only autodesk would have an open dialog with SINC, Dinosaur, You, and Myself and implement the changes we ask for, the customers would indeed be impressed.  And I wouldn't even want a pop-up box for my efforts.



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jpostlewait

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2008, 01:33:29 PM »
I have had someone from Manchester visit my office twice to hear what my end-users and I would like to see.
It's always a balance between what is possible and what's not.
They really do listen and indeed are quit helpful in diagnosing and fixing issues that can be identified.

mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2008, 01:37:07 PM »
Shame they can't embrace a sense of humor! Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make it untrue.
Explain the programming logic?  Just because the programming logic makes sense to them, does not a functioning application make. How about embrace that they are human, can and do make mistakes, drop the damned ego and fix the problems.  I am sure that this type of corporate culture would result in far more INOVATION and PROFITS for their share holders. Not to mention more satisfied, loyal customers.

Yelling at the people who write the program based on specifications handed down to them from management (Dev) or who are testing the program as written (QA) is not helpful. It just makes them not want to listen to anything you have to say. If you listen first and find ways to make their jobs easier, you are far more likely to get real answers and learn more about what influences the direction that the product takes.

dana





I never suggested that you YELL at people or be disrespectful. I would hope you know how to be honest, and critical without being critical or disrespectful of the individual. This would assume the individual wanted, and was mature enough to handle critical feedback and act in a positive manner.  If the Problem is as described, then THAT should be fixed, and let the direction for the application get to the programmers in another way.

If one merely listens without questioning there is no dialog that is Dictation.  They, the programmers should be the ones listening to the customers, NOT dictating to them, "this work, this way only, you no use that way", they need to drop the ego, and or change the 'channel' that information gets to them from. If they are missing their customers needs, then the 'problem' is identified. Stop denying that there is a problem and open up the customers channels to more honest discussion, and then respond with actual changes the users ask for, not some new look and feel to the interface every 3-4 years.
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mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2008, 01:40:30 PM »
I have had someone from Manchester visit my office twice to hear what my end-users and I would like to see.
It's always a balance between what is possible and what's not.
They really do listen and indeed are quit helpful in diagnosing and fixing issues that can be identified.

Not the response I have experienced, the autodesk individual pretty much denied that the documented probelm existed because HE could not reproduce it And even though I sent data to them to test, they would not send any to me to test in kind. And yet there were other users with said problem. (Point Styles with XDREF remember Scout?) I haven't tested to see if they fixed it in 2009.
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Michael Farrell
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scout

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2008, 01:54:27 PM »
Not the response I have experienced, the autodesk individual pretty much denied that the documented probelm existed because HE could not reproduce it And even though I sent data to them to test, they would not send any to me to test in kind. And yet there were other users with said problem. (Point Styles with XDREF remember Scout?) I haven't tested to see if they fixed it in 2009.

I remember it came at a time when I didn't have the bandwidth to help you get the issue in front of all of the right people. I think my son was only a few weeks old at the time. If you forward me the relevant information, I'd be happy to test it again. I am bogged down a bit today (finally got some data I was waiting for) but maybe tonight.

mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2008, 01:59:42 PM »
I did send you the data (a link to it), it is on my site (still) waiting to be down loaded. I also had that user watch the video where it did work with NO Service Pack Installed, and then asked to perform on any other machine to see that the Service Pak had indeed broken the function. Given that we are now in the 2009 cycle is may not be relevent any longer.

And if I recall, you were not helping me with the problem. You originally posted it as a problem, on the newsgroup site.  I looked into it to see if I would have the same problem. Lucky that I had not installed the SP, as the point elevations WERE applied and I did get 3 surfaces in my sections where you did not.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2008, 02:11:16 PM by mjfarrell »
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mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2008, 02:24:04 PM »
For the record, I just tested the point style and elevation over rides from XDREF do work correctly in 2009.
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Michael Farrell
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jpostlewait

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2008, 02:44:15 PM »
I have had someone from Manchester visit my office twice to hear what my end-users and I would like to see.
It's always a balance between what is possible and what's not.
They really do listen and indeed are quit helpful in diagnosing and fixing issues that can be identified.

Not the response I have experienced, the autodesk individual pretty much denied that the documented probelm existed because HE could not reproduce it And even though I sent data to them to test, they would not send any to me to test in kind. And yet there were other users with said problem. (Point Styles with XDREF remember Scout?) I haven't tested to see if they fixed it in 2009.

Sometimes it takes a while to diagnose and duplicate it.
but I have had them do it.

scout

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2008, 02:46:59 PM »
For the record, I just tested the point style and elevation over rides from XDREF do work correctly in 2009.


glad to hear it. I am sure there will be others. When the time comes, let me know and I will do my best to help. I can't always get everyone to agree that things need to be fixed, but we can usually get them to acknowledge the issue and figure out a course of action. Sometimes the answer isn't what we want to hear, but if we take a step back and look at things from a macro-standpoint, or from the program priorities as a whole, we can understand why things happen the way they do.

mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2008, 03:14:07 PM »
I have had someone from Manchester visit my office twice to hear what my end-users and I would like to see.
It's always a balance between what is possible and what's not.
They really do listen and indeed are quit helpful in diagnosing and fixing issues that can be identified.

Not the response I have experienced, the autodesk individual pretty much denied that the documented probelm existed because HE could not reproduce it And even though I sent data to them to test, they would not send any to me to test in kind. And yet there were other users with said problem. (Point Styles with XDREF remember Scout?) I haven't tested to see if they fixed it in 2009.

Sometimes it takes a while to diagnose and duplicate it.
but I have had them do it.

Yes JP, however everyone is NOT the pet project of a new Vendor like you were with EE.
You would have gotten a much different customer experience if they had not been determined to let you be their poster child. And you willingly played along, so it WAS more in their interest to at least appear to listen to you, or actively search for solutions.  Now deny that you did not have a special relationship with EE...I'll wait.

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Michael Farrell
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jpostlewait

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2008, 03:24:16 PM »
My firm does have a relationship with EE as I'm sure all of their other clients do as well.
it's a matter of picking your partners based on what they can deliver. GBA picked EE in part because they could deliver that access and contact level. To discount that as part of their services is shortsighted and foolish.

mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2008, 03:30:40 PM »
Not discounting it....just asking for FULL disclosure. So that other users do not think they will have the same access or standard of care from their vendor. Or the vendor network in general.
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Michael Farrell
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