Author Topic: Books on Civil and Land.  (Read 19013 times)

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therock003

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Books on Civil and Land.
« on: May 17, 2008, 01:59:19 PM »
Hi guys,has anyone of you used any books as a reference to learn C3D and LDD?I have bought Harnessing LDD 2005 and Procedures and applications for civil 3d 2007 by Harry O. Ward.

The Harry o ward is nice cause it describes whats behind the commands,and offers scenarios on how the programm is used.But it doesn go too deep with the commands.It's like basic stuff to get you going.Although i find it pretty good at that.I wonder if the new 2008 and 2009 version have anything more to oofer,new applications or new stuff to teach or is it same stuff but concerning its for the new version.

Also how about the harnessing civil 3d andhttp://www.amazon.com/Introducing-AutoCAD-Civil-3D-2009/dp/0470373164/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211047020&sr=8-4 are like.

Jeff_M

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2008, 07:09:48 PM »
Mastering Civil3D 2008 is really good. I understand the 2009 version will have both Beginning & Mastering versions. More info, including ordering, can be found at www.civil3d.com

MSTG007

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2008, 09:36:03 PM »
Land development books also, I found at books.google.com.
You can read them there.
Civil3D 2020

mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2008, 10:17:36 AM »
I can Not suggest any book other that the help file. As mentioned on gets a bit too deep, and the other is fraught with errors and omissions.  I have worked with several students for whom these books become paper weights.
Study the help file, and go watch the recorded demos at the C3D community page of Autodesk, and keep you cash for something you can use.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

therock003

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2008, 11:39:15 AM »
go watch the recorded demos at the C3D community page of Autodesk,

You mean the on-demand webcasts?

mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2008, 11:50:09 AM »
Do not bother to watch any of the LIVE webcasts, so you can fast forward through all the drivel they start with.

Go watch the recorded ones, and then run some experiments, and STUDY what happens.
Be aware they are MOSTLY features presentations NOT 'how to' use the software sessions, so they skip a lot of the fine details.  Watch the tutorials on my site, these are more 'How To', not feature demonstrations.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
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scout

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2008, 12:14:59 PM »
I can Not suggest any book other that the help file. As mentioned on gets a bit too deep, and the other is fraught with errors and omissions.  I have worked with several students for whom these books become paper weights.
Study the help file, and go watch the recorded demos at the C3D community page of Autodesk, and keep you cash for something you can use.

Hi Mike

I'm sorry to hear you feel this way about Mastering. I know you had expressed some distaste for the text in the past. While you and I don't always seem to see eye-to-eye, I (along with the other authors) valued your opinion and experience enough to send you a free copy of Mastering Civil 3D 2008 and ask for your feedback to improve forthcoming revised book (Mastering Civil 3D 2009), as well as subsquent printings of the 2008 Mastering book, and a new book (Introducing Civil 3D 2009).

Perhaps you had other things on your plate at the time, but you didn't really have much to offer except some comments about TIN lines and a little bit about the pipe network parts chapter.

My personal mission is to get information out to the Civil 3D using public through whatever avenues possible. It may sound corny, but my goal has always been to get people using Civil 3D because I see it as a vehicle to improve design. The more interations we can do, the more we can eliminate CAD mistakes and labeling annoyances, the more time we can spent trying new things and iterating more. Last year, I saw writing a that would appear in mainstream bookshops and online retailers to be a logical step in that process.

While Mastering Civil 3D is not the book of my dreams, putting it together was an education. For the new books we have a better understanding of the publishing business (working with editors, deadlines and production complications) and we also sought better tech editors.

I put out several "calls for feedback" on the Autodesk discussion group, and by asking you for your feedback, and surprisingly, I received mostly crickets in response.

Each author has used the text for class instruction and this exercise gave us more ideas to improve the book, make it more readable, more instructive. All things considered, I am still quite proud of the entire text, and the 400 pages that I personally wrote.
------
Here are some of the items that I am most proud of (and that I am pretty sure they cannot be found anywhere else), and that I personally flip to as a reminder and reference:

Chapter 6: Parcels, especially the sidebar on pages 201- 204 where I document guidelines for subdivision based on methods I worked out during creating several thousand parcel iterations for many preliminary site plans and final record plats during the Winter of 2005-2006 in Civil 3D 2006 HF2. The processes still apply today. Also, this chapter includes a refined version of the original "Parcel Rules" post from Civil 3D Rocks that explains, in laymans terms, how best to exploit the planar graph.

Chapter 11: Corridors: especially the "common corridor problems" sections and detailed look "under the hood" of corridor surface construction

Chapter 12: Corridors: especially the "common corridor problems" sections based on many of my own frustrations encountered working out corridor best practices during the design and modeling of ten residential street projects (each containing about 20 roads plus intersections and cul de sacs) while doing freelance cad/design work between 7/2006 and 4/2007.
-----
While we are limited in what we can change at this time since our deadline is upon us, I would still like to hear feedback about how the text can be improved. If we can't incorporate the feedback in the book, perhaps we can work it into one of our weekly eeCasts, blog posts or something else.

Sincerely,

Dana Breig Probert
one of four authors of Mastering AutoCAD Civil 3D 2008
and writer at www.civil3drocks.com and www.civil3d.com



mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2008, 12:23:05 PM »
Dana,


As I do not post much at the News Groups, I missed those calls for comment.  Also Time seemed to limit what comments could or would be included I commented only on the areas I felt strongest about. (Were those items addressed?)
If a PDF of the current text could be provided, I would be happy to provide a peer review. Otherwise I would be commenting on old information.

We share the some of the same goals; getting people to use the software.  Now if only EE would do more to help fix the application, instead of accepting it's defects, limitations, and or deficiencies.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

scout

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2008, 12:32:30 PM »
We share the some of the same goals; getting people to use the software.  Now if only EE would do more to help fix the application, instead of accepting it's defects, limitations, and or deficiencies.

With all due respect, Mike, you have absolutely no idea what I do behind the scenes under Non-disclosure as a user advocate for the improvement of Civil 3D.

scout

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2008, 12:39:30 PM »
As I do not post much at the News Groups, I missed those calls for comment.  Also Time seemed to limit what comments could or would be included I commented only on the areas I felt strongest about. (Were those items addressed?)

These are the two comments you made:

1. Surface Edits Delete Line, be sure to warn that should lines be deleted from the interior of the model all resultant volumes from that surface will be in error.  Suggest alternate, extract contour lines from model and delete or edit those, thus leaving the model intact.

2. Suggest, that in Partbuilder section, that user be advised to create isometric sketch showing various part relationships prior to entering Partbuilder, as this makes the process easier to do.

----

I am not sure about number 1, but I know we discussed it. As far as Number 2 goes, it is not really within the scope of the text because the text does not cover building parts in part builder.

However, several of my colleagues and myself wrote a significant volume of material on part builder last summer that has been added to the Civil 3D 2009 help file in the form of step-action-result tutorials. I think there are three parts built. Take them with a grain of salt, though, because Part Builder is an inappropriate engine for building parts in reality. In short, it stinks.

mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2008, 12:46:57 PM »
We share the some of the same goals; getting people to use the software.  Now if only EE would do more to help fix the application, instead of accepting it's defects, limitations, and or deficiencies.

With all due respect, Mike, you have absolutely no idea what I do behind the scenes under Non-disclosure as a user advocate for the improvement of Civil 3D.

Really?  Excellent!  That would prove A) you are really good at staying behind the scenes B)autodesk does ignore everyone equally!


I guess this would go more towards the 'language' issue I have with that book.  Perhaps a little more pointed poking at the defects and deficiencies might get them to be more responsive. I know that this would prove a strain on the relationship between EE and autodesk, however IF one of their key Proponents of the Product were to call it like it is, then perhaps more would change faster. (And not autodesk booting EE out of the network)

You are right, I have no idea, however keep up the good fight!
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2008, 12:49:33 PM »
As I do not post much at the News Groups, I missed those calls for comment.  Also Time seemed to limit what comments could or would be included I commented only on the areas I felt strongest about. (Were those items addressed?)



I am not sure about number 1, but I know we discussed it. As far as Number 2 goes, it is not really within the scope of the text because the text does not cover building parts in part builder.


And part of the reason the Book should NOT be titled MASTERING.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

jpostlewait

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2008, 12:53:18 PM »
I believe that's the title for a number of books in that series.

scout

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2008, 12:59:10 PM »

Really?  Excellent!  That would prove A) you are really good at staying behind the scenes B)autodesk does ignore everyone equally!


I sure am good at it. If I wasn't, I would be putting myself at legal risk. That is why it is called non-disclosure.

As much as my ego would like it, they don't put a little tag on menus that you get built at your suggestion, nor does a little pop-up box come up that says "this feature has been improved thanks to feedback from Dana. Ain't she grand."

While there are occasions that pointing out a fundamental flaw in a public forum is appropriate (like this series I wrote about inexcuseable regen times  http://www.civil3d.com/2008/03/regen-rules-part-ii-more-under-the-hood/), I have learned in my trips to Manchester and my daily interaction with members of the QA and Dev teams that they are human beings just like we are, and that they deserve to be treated with respect. While their power is often limited, they can usually explain the programming logic and limitations which arms me with information so that I can a) help my users avoid problems and b) provide feedback for workflow and future improvements.

You and I both make at least a portion of our living teaching this software within the confines of what it is capable of _right now_.

Being respectful and constructive also gets you invited back. This is important because you can't gain audience with the right people who can make change if you are escorted from the building.

mjfarrell

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Re: Books on Civil and Land.
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2008, 01:08:03 PM »
Shame they can't embrace a sense of humor! Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't make it untrue.
Explain the programming logic?  Just because the programming logic makes sense to them, does not a functioning application make. How about embrace that they are human, can and do make mistakes, drop the damned ego and fix the problems.  I am sure that this type of corporate culture would result in far more INOVATION and PROFITS for their share holders. Not to mention more satisfied, loyal customers.

Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/