Topic: Vault yeah or neah

[Mark]

Yesterday I had a training in Civil3D 2012 and there was a short note about Vault.

If you are an existing Vault customer, worried about how this change will effect you, or if you are interested in learning about how Vault could perhaps help your company, please send me a PM and we'll take this off the Swamp. Thanks.

In the interest of full disclosure why would you take the conversation about Vault, and or it's replacement product away from this discussion? Starting a new thread I can understand.  Hiding the details in some offline discussion, seems to be very disingenuous.
What are you trying to hide?

LOL seriously!

[Wedding]

I've said before that I think these discussions are more appropriate at a personal or company level than on the internet. I listed above the main features that I think make Vault Collaboration AEC a pretty great tool, no need to reiterate. Michael has complained that my input here is nothing but sales hype. In an attempt to address both issues, I'll take these conversations offline.

[mjfarrell]

I've said before that I think these discussions are more appropriate at a personal or company level than on the internet. I listed above the main features that I think make Vault Collaboration AEC a pretty great tool, no need to reiterate. Michael has complained that my input here is nothing but sales hype. In an attempt to address both issues, I'll take these conversations offline.

No my complaint was that you took a conversation about VAULT and turned it into a sales presentation for Vault Collaboration AEC.

These conversation are not best held at a company level, as then you have only the salesperson, and your boss (you know the guy that STILL can't figure out paperspace) trying to decide of this product has any use of value to the company.
Lets keep the conversation right here, where one can get both sides of the conversation.

[StykFacE]

These conversation are not best held at a company level, as then you have only the salesperson, and your boss (you know the guy that STILL can't figure out paperspace) trying to decide of this product has any use of value to the company.

Oh man..... good point.

[JCTER]

I've said before that I think these discussions are more appropriate at a personal or company level than on the internet. I listed above the main features that I think make Vault Collaboration AEC a pretty great tool, no need to reiterate. Michael has complained that my input here is nothing but sales hype. In an attempt to address both issues, I'll take these conversations offline.

No my complaint was that you took a conversation about VAULT and turned it into a sales presentation for Vault Collaboration AEC.

These conversation are not best held at a company level, as then you have only the salesperson, and your boss (you know the guy that STILL can't figure out paperspace) trying to decide of this product has any use of value to the company.
Lets keep the conversation right here, where one can get both sides of the conversation.

My boss is quite competent with Autocad, is no fool, and isn't easily swayed by smoke and mirrors, and allows me to do all the research before presenting him with the 'nuts and bolts' of how it will work here.

Resellers -do- have a valuable role to play still, as they can have a very strong hands-on experience with how the typical industry works around here, which is a major contributor to software selection.  How much do you know about how oilfield works, MJF?  Vector Graphics, Inc, in Lafayette, LA, is pretty well knowledgable, knows the trends, and has good feedback from a good number of power users on their success/fail with some software.  They can also put me in touch (and have before) with power users in other companies so we can discuss it ourselves.

But I guess that doesn't fit into your private training sales bias. (u c wut i did thar?)

I'm still waiting to hear if you have any alternate suggestions that would be better than Vault.  

[mjfarrell]

You tell me what you think you need an application to do; and I'll do my best to offer any and all applications that might serve your needs.  My solutions will include all products, not only autodesk products.  That would be the difference twixt myself and your local autodesk reseller. 
Where one buys or what software one buys, has nothing to do with my training philosophy.  That would be the beauty of working with an independent consultant; all possible options from multiple sources.
I do not need specific hands on oil field experience to help guide your software or training decisions.
The reason for that is that I will not presume to know your business, or it's needs, or even how they handle their data.
I will ask a lot of questions before offering any suggested solution, or changes to your work flow.
I will not sell you product because I do not sell any products, I will suggest, and offer training for those products I am qualified to.

[JCTER]

Our company policy on new software is to take into consideration what "everyone else" is using, as our company takes on new clients and works with other companies a great deal.  So though -ideally- it shouldn't matter - it is actually a rather large hinge our decision rests upon that has served us well.

Now who's the sales pitcher? 

[mjfarrell]

I wasn't selling you anything. I was explaining to you the difference in my services and how my training philosophy is not driven by any particular brand or company loyalty.  My loyalty is to the customer, not a product.

[sinc]

The main change is that Vault Collaboration AEC will be a for-pay product and includes the new functionality as I described earlier in the thread. This product ties in at a much lower level to the Civil 3D model than ever before

Statements like this make the Software Engineer in me shudder.

The Autodesk dev team is going further and further down the path of a "high-cohesion solution".  This is forcing the Vault team to know more and more about every product that uses the Vault, and the Vault is getting more and more "aware" of the internal workings of each of those products.  This is turning Vault into product with high potential to be unstable, as changes to any of the underlying products will have more and more potential to "break Vault", and fixes in one area of the Vault code have more and more potential to "break Vault" for other products.

Net result is we can expect Autodesk to start needing more and more developer-hours to create features that are more and more prone to bugs. [shudder]

[Jeff H]

So...... how about that Buzzsaw?

[barc]

When two salesman start to beef about each others sales tactics .......   :ugly:

I saw the ignore poster button, is there an ignore thread button, or once you posted in a thread you're stuck watching the replies in your "new replies box"??  

[Jeff H]

When two salesman start to beef about each others sales tactics .......   :ugly:

I saw the ignore poster button, is there an ignore thread button, or once you posted in a thread you're stuck watching the replies in your "new replies box"?? 

Why would you do that?
This is what makes the Swamp great?
Letting the most passionate, knowledgeable people say what they want?
   

[Dinosaur]

Why would you do that?
This is what makes the Swamp great?
Letting the most passionate, knowledgeable people say what they want?
   

Aye barc .... this was decidedly mild interaction between these two.  They have a mutual admiration society going on in this topic.  A few years ago, I had to pull the plug on one of my own threads and even one started by Mark himself when their dialog took an unfortunate direction.  Incidentally, I have had actual social and professional contact with both of these gentlemen and shared food and drink at their table albeit in separate locations.  I respect them both and guarantee that choosing to ignore the posts of either will be a missed opportunity to learn.

[barc]

Why would you do that?
This is what makes the Swamp great?
Letting the most passionate, knowledgeable people say what they want?
   

Aye barc .... this was decidedly mild interaction between these two.  They have a mutual admiration society going on in this topic.  A few years ago, I had to pull the plug on one of my own threads and even one started by Mark himself when their dialog took an unfortunate direction.  Incidentally, I have had actual social and professional contact with both of these gentlemen and shared food and drink at their table albeit in separate locations.  I respect them both and guarantee that choosing to ignore the posts of either will be a missed opportunity to learn.

Regardless of the worth of any individual, watching two salesmen bit@$ about each others sales tactics is, for me, less than entertaining.  Its not about the discussion being heated or mild, its about the value of the discussion to me.  I don't wish to ignore either user, I don't even wish to ignore this thread. I'm just looking for a way to keep this thread and others in which I may have posted from showing up in my "new replies" list.
I'll be much more careful in choosing which threads to post responses in the future.

[StykFacE]

Regardless of the worth of any individual, watching two salesmen bit@$ about each others sales tactics is, for me, less than entertaining.

It might be less than entertaining but there's a lot of value to these types of discussions. If you analyze at a distance you can find that in the mildly heated debates, you're getting true opposing opinions in the same trade matched with equal amount of references. Since the emotions are high, you know you're getting the truth from these guys. From that point on, you can then make an assessment as to who is right and why for your own personal gain. *wink wink*