alright.. thanks for everything.. unfortunatedly, even after i paste to the surface, which is a method I tried to used after seeing a tutorial on A.U. I still do not get some of the splitters in the render.. I do get the splitters to show the upraised proile in the object view, but not in the render view. for now, we're the only group who is going to have any sort o 3d rendering so... hopefully what I have will do... I might just add a few cars, the yield signage and set up a report with the sag and crest vert curves and all the proposals or the intersection design.. along with the google earth abilities of autocad, Im sure we will be better than the other groups.. but If you have any other suggestions they are more than welcomed.