Author Topic: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts  (Read 21441 times)

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mjfarrell

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2014, 11:50:35 AM »
did you create a special parts list?

or are there specific parts I should be looking at with this?

(after I clear up error regarding catalog not being set....when I'm sure that it is...! ?)
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mjfarrell

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2014, 12:12:28 PM »
Here is my results....


Set Catalog to yours

Open TEST.DWG suupplied

Edit 6" PVC pipe - Set to GAS MAIN

Create Pipe network


Save

Create Data shortcuts path/folder/and shortcuts

Save

Start new file

Drag and drop parts list from source (TEST.DWG)
Save
Create Reference to pipe network created above
Check Pipe properties - they Match source


Return to TEST.DWG

Edit Pipe properties for 6" PVC - set to Telephone/Fibre Optic

Swap all parts in network - for 6" PVC (same part - new optional properties)
Save

Return to file with reference to pipe network
Synchronize Reference

Check pipe properties - Optional Properties Match source (TEST.DWG)


this is in 2014 - we might have a 2013 to test this in somewhere (?)  for testing purposes
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 12:28:21 PM by mjfarrell »
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mjfarrell

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2014, 12:55:44 PM »
similar test method with 2013 version same results...optional properties were updated upon synchronization.


What properties are not being updated on your side?
This test was done with a fresh install of 2013, no updates, service patches or hot fixes applied.
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alanjt

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2014, 11:59:00 AM »
The pipes aren't the issue, it's the structures.
Are you using the custom parts list? MB-P Storm
The issue occurs when I swap a part in the base (test.dwg) file, any drefed files will not update the structure style. The part properties will be correct, but the style doesn't update.

The other issue I've noticed is if you alter any of the custom properties, the part is no longer properly tied to the correct part when you execute the "swap part" command, but instead will default to the top item in the list. Honestly, I don't really care about this, except that it doesn't dref correctly, but instead uses the style tied to the first part in the list.

Example: set a type E inlet by swapping a part. Then edit a custom property. Now, if you swap part on it, when the swap part window comes up, it should have type e inlet selected, but instead it has type c inlet selected (the first part in the list).
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mjfarrell

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2014, 12:08:17 PM »
I think what you are seeing is what most have come to expect as 'normal' behavior for pipes and structures. (sad I know)

Further I don't believe that styles carry over with a dref at all....try it with a surface for example.
IF one changes the source surface style it will have no impact on the dref'ed surface style at all


I noticed just now that this happens with your 'P' bottom structure list; however not with the 'J' bottom structure list....so it isn't even consistent in that regard.

Let me devise some other tests.....and test
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alanjt

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2014, 12:49:31 PM »
What the hell? That's the entire point of being able to dref a pipe network. I mean, that's the entire reason for the existence for the parts list. How else can I change a type 1 inlet to a type 2 and it display correctly? They will have the same structure bottom, but the top will be different. I guess this is why FDOT went with building the entire structure top and only using a structure outline for the style. I just don't get it. The really strange part is, some times, when you swap a part and update in your dref file, it actually changes the style to match, but it's never consistent, and it doesn't always pick the correct style.
I have always tried to remain on Autodesk's side, but this has pushed me to the dark side.

With surfaces, it doesn't really matter if the style carries over since it's that portion may be different from drawing to drawing (color/etc.), but with the network, where your display is based on the style, you HAVE TO HAVE it update accordingly.

A user can't be expected to swap a part in the pipe network file, then go to each file the network is drefed in and update the display style.

What are other people doing to combat this?
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alanjt

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2014, 12:50:11 PM »
I really appreciate you spending time on this. I'm about to pull my hair out.
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mjfarrell

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2014, 12:53:34 PM »
delete the entire dref'ed net work


recreate the reference


curse silently and carry on :cry:
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alanjt

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2014, 02:12:37 PM »
What if you have profiles or cross sections? You'd lose all labels, etc.
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mjfarrell

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2014, 02:32:36 PM »
OR..revert to

ALL Pipe design data is in one file

XREF into sheets as required.


The more one works with pipes, the more one would want to take a pipe and do bodily harm to the programmers of the pipes modules.  (NOTE to FBI, seriously a joke, no actual threat implied)
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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2014, 05:23:27 PM »
delete the entire dref'ed net work


recreate the reference


curse silently and carry on :cry:
I always felt better when I cursed LOUDLY and carried on after a session fighting pipes

alanjt

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2014, 05:46:32 PM »
OR..revert to

ALL Pipe design data is in one file

XREF into sheets as required.


The more one works with pipes, the more one would want to take a pipe and do bodily harm to the programmers of the pipes modules.  (NOTE to FBI, seriously a joke, no actual threat implied)
But how do you deal with cross sections and profiles?

At this point, I question if it isn't just better to draw all pipes/structures the old way as just blocks/plines in the base file, then use a pipe network with outline styles that drawing everything on a no plot layer, but use the styles
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mjfarrell

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2015, 07:54:28 AM »
design first

draft last

Limit your edits after the drafting phase
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alanjt

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2015, 12:47:20 PM »
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-civil-3d-general/part-swapping-pipe-network-not-showing-correctly-in-data/m-p/3702746#M189479

Just stumbled across this. This has to be the dumbest bit of information I've ever read. I can't believe this is how pipe networks are designed.
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mjfarrell

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Re: civil 3d: swapping parts not updating in data shortcuts
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2015, 09:30:39 AM »
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-civil-3d-general/part-swapping-pipe-network-not-showing-correctly-in-data/m-p/3702746#M189479

Just stumbled across this. This has to be the dumbest bit of information I've ever read. I can't believe this is how pipe networks are designed.

Pipe networks (NOT WORKS)  are such a terrible attempt , and largely abandoned in place (my opinion) by autodesk.
The programmers should hang themselves in shame.

This goes towards my frustration that they are now investing so much energy into INFRAWORKS instead of fixing the 'design' tool we all already own.
Given that INFRAWORKS is or was initially released as "A visualization tool", NOT a design tool.
And now they want to somehow shoehorn a bunch of 'design' tools into it, at the expense of fixing the broken mess that is pipes of any nature inside Civil 3d.   
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Michael Farrell
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