Author Topic: Flattening drawings.  (Read 51186 times)

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CaddmannQ

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SuperFlatten
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2007, 12:14:16 PM »
Sorry about the language, Dino. I thought I'd cleaned it all up before I hit post.

Maverick®

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SuperFlatten
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2007, 12:36:05 PM »
edited for language

Lemme guess....  Mandarin?

Dinosaur

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SuperFlatten
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2007, 12:54:14 PM »
Sorry about the language, Dino. I thought I'd cleaned it all up before I hit post.
eh . . . scat happens sometimes  :-D

Maverick®

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« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2007, 12:56:06 PM »
. . . scat happens sometimes  :-D

Scibbitty bop de dew bop di bip boo ding!

Dinosaur

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SuperFlatten
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2007, 12:56:29 PM »
edited for language

Lemme guess....  Mandarin?
just well salted "good ol' boy speak"

Josh Nieman

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SuperFlatten
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2007, 01:07:04 PM »
edited for language

Lemme guess....  Mandarin?
just well salted "good ol' boy speak"

must be why reading was so easy for me :p

CADaver

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SuperFlatten
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2007, 01:11:05 PM »
Randy, I think you're trying to exasperate me by repeating the same old <excrement>,
As long as you keep missing the point I'll repeat it.

but his is my last round of dead horse beating on this topic.
That's a bet.

To 3D or not to 3D is NOT the question here and it never was.  It's totally obtuse that you keep trying to make it seem so;
Therein lies the point you've been missing all along.  There is 3D, what I do.  Then there is "broken drawings", what you're trying to fix by stepping on.  Once stepped upon they are still broken, only flat.  Using "Flatten" on what I do is a very bad idea, it ruins a lot of work.  Using "Flatten" to fix a broken drawing is an equally bad idea in that all it does is make the bad drawing flat.
The reason I keep talking about 3D as an issue (we have at least two going here) is you keep saying you don't need it, and yet you go on to say you've been drawing elevations for thirty years.  Well which is it??

If you tried that "redraw the thing from scratch and bill the client" <excrement> in our business you'd either be without clients in a heartbeat or they'd just tell you to go whistle up a drainpipe because they ain't paying for it.
Somebody is paying for the extra work, if you like repairing their drawings for free, carry on.  I don't work for free.  Nor do I expose my company to the liability of someone else's bad file.  If you don't mind setting yourself up to pay for somebody elses back charges, carry on.  I prefer profits.

Are things less than cutting edge in this business? Absolutely. Are we gonna change the M.O. of the whole market segment by force of will and dogged determination? Not bloody likely. Am I losing sleep over it? Nope. When the clients can send us viable 3D, we'll send them 3D back. End of story.

As for the Luddite thing: kiss off. We have real computers and we can work them. If we're not NASA or Bechtel, well so freakin' what? We do what makes sense with what we are given, and the fact that you think what we do is wrong doesn't alter the fact that virtually everybody in this segment is doing the same thing.
That, my friend, is a textbook definition of Luddite.  Which, by the way, was the slur you intended for me, as I recall. So if you wish it smooched, be my guest.

Public school design isn't what you do as a specialty, so pardon me if I don't bother with the pointless task of explaining the issues further.
Oh I understand your position quite well.  I've seen it dozens of times in dozens of places.

CADaver

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SuperFlatten
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2007, 01:32:22 PM »
Randy,

I agree with you regarding the idea, if I may paraphrase, garbage in garbage out. Likewise, I certainly do not feel comfortable with any attempt at fixing other people's mistakes. Especially when that other person is a consultant who should know more about what they are doing than I do.
Thanks Joe, my point all along.

The flip side is sometimes I have to compromise between what I wish I had and what I have inhand. Maybe just to meet a deadline.
If that is a liability you can live with, then by all means carry on.  I would prefer to miss a deadline than to jeopardize the accuracy of my data or our reputation as a quality design house.  But then that's just me.

What I intend to do given the Site example file I posted is send the program to the consultant and ask them to fix things as they see fit.
For those that have been reading my drivel for a while, I cover this kind of stuff in contract. They'll bring it into compliance or they won't get paid, plus they may be liable for any and all subsequent charges and penalties.

Which leads to my point here. SuperFlatten is just a tool like any other. Users are free to use or abuse it as they see fit. That is not and should not be my concern from a programming standpoint.
And that I understand, hence my initial comment.  As for abuse, a client contacted me a while back with a file another sub had basically destroyed with a similar flatten routine.  Fortunatly, we had a copy of the file as it was when we transmitted to him originally and the modifications only took a few days.  He had thought he was saving some money by going with someone local, but wound up spending a lot more and missing a shutdown.  Very expensive lesson.

Aside to those who said thanks, my pleasure. I hope it serves you well.

Regards
Just so you're aware, I've been looking at the code a bit and there are some very interesting functions there I have to study.  For the examples, thank you.

Maverick®

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« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2007, 01:33:29 PM »
  Then there is "broken drawings", what you're trying to fix by stepping on.  Once stepped upon they are still broken, only flat. 

If I may...

  I don't think he is trying to "fix" them.  I think he is eliminating information that he doesn't need, didn't draw or provide, and doesn't want to pass on as someone down the road may attribute that information to him because the plans they are using came from him.

  I have gotten many plans in SP from other Cad jockeys that in 2d plan view were correct.  Most of the entities in SP have 3d attributes to them.  You "draw" a 2x6 wall in plan view, what you are actually creating is a 2x6 wall, 8' tall, with sheetrock, insulation, sheathing, siding, etc.  All of which can be edited to be "correct" in 3d.  Problem is these peeps don't care or use 3d.  So you open the drawing in 3d and you have walls offset 15' in the air and toilets stacked over floor joists.  Now I take this 2d drawing, which in 2d is correct, change say just the kitchen cabinet layout. Down the road someone uses those files thinking that ALL of the info in them is accurate...... PITA.

Maverick®

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« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2007, 01:36:52 PM »
  I would prefer to miss a deadline than to jeopardize the accuracy of my data or our reputation as a quality design house.

And one can only be a "quality design house" if they work the same way you do.  :roll: 

CADaver

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SuperFlatten
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2007, 01:47:02 PM »
  Then there is "broken drawings", what you're trying to fix by stepping on.  Once stepped upon they are still broken, only flat. 

If I may...

  I don't think he is trying to "fix" them.  I think he is eliminating information that he doesn't need, didn't draw or provide, and doesn't want to pass on as someone down the road may attribute that information to him because the plans they are using came from him.
I think you may be mistaken.  As I re-read the thread he's talking about errant information as exampled by Joe's site drawing.


  I have gotten many plans in SP from other Cad jockeys that in 2d plan view were correct.  Most of the entities in SP have 3d attributes to them.  You "draw" a 2x6 wall in plan view, what you are actually creating is a 2x6 wall, 8' tall, with sheetrock, insulation, sheathing, siding, etc.  All of which can be edited to be "correct" in 3d.  Problem is these peeps don't care or use 3d.  So you open the drawing in 3d and you have walls offset 15' in the air and toilets stacked over floor joists.  Now I take this 2d drawing, which in 2d is correct, change say just the kitchen cabinet layout. Down the road someone uses those files thinking that ALL of the info in them is accurate...... PITA.
That's the errant information (flying walls) I think is being discussed.  My position is and remains, that if the 3D data has been so corrupted, I have little faith that the 2D information is any more correct.  Either a file is accurate or it is not, failure in one area questions the validity of all other areas.

CADaver

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SuperFlatten
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2007, 01:51:03 PM »
  I would prefer to miss a deadline than to jeopardize the accuracy of my data or our reputation as a quality design house.

And one can only be a "quality design house" if they work the same way you do.  :roll: 
Not at all.  There are many quality design houses continuing to use 2D methods (Luddite as they may be).  When I receive a file from these, such errant information as exampled in Joe's site plan does not appear.  Joe's site drawing is, in my opinion, an example of someone without a clue what they are doing.  Such indication will disqualify the file from our use.

Maverick®

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« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2007, 01:56:43 PM »
  Those awesome piping drawings that I have seen you post.  Are the colors represented in the rendering actually what they will be painted to be?

 

Josh Nieman

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SuperFlatten
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2007, 01:59:49 PM »
  Those awesome piping drawings that I have seen you post.  Are the colors represented in the rendering actually what they will be painted to be?

 

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

CADaver

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SuperFlatten
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2007, 02:03:27 PM »
 Those awesome piping drawings that I have seen you post.  Are the colors represented in the rendering actually what they will be painted to be?
gee whiz... abrupt turns like that can throw my back outta whack, be careful dude.  
I have some controls in NavisWorks for several different color schemes, so the screen shots from NW may be finish paint.  During the modeling process within AutoCAD we use color to delineate process commodity and area visually.