Topic: LT Add-on, 3rd Party software

[Greg B]

I'm done with this thread for three reasons

1) Mark's uncommonly irrational "because if the world ran like I wished" arguments
2) Gazza's repeated failure to cite anything whatsoever and limiting his points to "nuh-uh, you're wrong."
3) the most important one, Randy said something that I agreed with completely and didn't annoy me.

The first two make the discussion completely pointless because one side is trying to ascertain facts and the other is banking entirely on emotions, and the third just makes me feel queasy.

As far as I'm concerned, at this point, the burden of proof as to the legality rests on the pro-hack side.  In the mean time, to me these programs are illegal hacks and I hope that the swamp doesn't start going down that road.  Either that or I hope the Swamp puts up some space for mp3 sharing.

Why tell us you are done with a thread and insult people in the process?

[rkmcswain]

Everyone knows the intent of LT was to provide a less robust version of AutoCAD to those with less than robust budgets.  Certain aspects of the applications were crippled to accomplish that goal.  If you need the full function software, buy it.

Integrity is doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do.

Amen.

If you pulled up to a gas station and the pump was somehow messed up and allowed you pump all the gas you wanted for free - would you do it just because you COULD?

[craigr]

Everyone knows the intent of LT was to provide a less robust version of AutoCAD to those with less than robust budgets.  Certain aspects of the applications were crippled to accomplish that goal.  If you need the full function software, buy it.

Integrity is doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do.

Amen.

If you pulled up to a gas station and the pump was somehow messed up and allowed you pump all the gas you wanted for free - would you do it just because you COULD?

MANY people would!!!

I would not, I was taught better. MANY people were not.

craigr

[Josh Nieman]

Everyone knows the intent of LT was to provide a less robust version of AutoCAD to those with less than robust budgets.  Certain aspects of the applications were crippled to accomplish that goal.  If you need the full function software, buy it.

Integrity is doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do.

Amen.

If you pulled up to a gas station and the pump was somehow messed up and allowed you pump all the gas you wanted for free - would you do it just because you COULD?

I swear officer, I don't know how that valve got busted open!  It was just coincidence I had all these 55 gallon drums in my truck and I didn't want to the gas to just go to WASTE... ya know?

[rkmcswain]

MANY people would!!!

I would not, I was taught better. MANY people were not.

craigr

Same here.
Just making the point of CADaver's statement "Integrity is doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do."

[CADaver]

3) the most important one, Randy said something that I agreed with completely and didn't annoy me.
...
and the third just makes me feel queasy.

Sorry Bob, I'll try harder next time.

[Bob Wahr]

I'm done with this thread for three reasons

1) Mark's uncommonly irrational "because if the world ran like I wished" arguments
2) Gazza's repeated failure to cite anything whatsoever and limiting his points to "nuh-uh, you're wrong."
3) the most important one, Randy said something that I agreed with completely and didn't annoy me.

The first two make the discussion completely pointless because one side is trying to ascertain facts and the other is banking entirely on emotions, and the third just makes me feel queasy.

As far as I'm concerned, at this point, the burden of proof as to the legality rests on the pro-hack side.  In the mean time, to me these programs are illegal hacks and I hope that the swamp doesn't start going down that road.  Either that or I hope the Swamp puts up some space for mp3 sharing.

Why tell us you are done with a thread and insult people in the process?

I said that I was done with it because I was one of the main posters in the thread and the discussion was too one sided to continue.  I thought that giving my reasons for stopping repeating the same things in different words was the courteous thing to do.

I don't think that I insulted anyone except Randy and I'm pretty sure by his response that he recognized the tongue in cheek nature of it.  Marks posts are in my opinion, as I described them.  It seems like he is making an effort to justify something that he knows is shady.  Gazza hasn't cited a single one of his points.  Read the thread again, all he has done is told people they are wrong without offering a single fact to the contrary.  I even posted a quote from the documentation of one of these products and he told me I was wrong and that it was an old site, without bothering to give the new site.  When I googled it this morning, that appeared to be the most likely URL for LT-Extender.

[Edit]
Paragraph removed to make management happier
[/edit]

[Gazza]

Everyone knows the intent of LT was to provide a less robust version of AutoCAD to those with less than robust budgets.  Certain aspects of the applications were crippled to accomplish that goal.  If you need the full function software, buy it.

Integrity is doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do.

Amen.

If you pulled up to a gas station and the pump was somehow messed up and allowed you pump all the gas you wanted for free - would you do it just because you COULD?

That is a less than a convincing analogy.

It assumes that someone is stealing something or breaking the law in someway.

No one here has be able to prove to me that if I use one of these product that I am
in fact doing anything other that making my life easier.

You gas analogy could be turned on you when the manufacture tells you that you
can only use the gas in your mower. The same gas for the car will be $2.00 extra
and if you put the mower gas in the car you are breaking the law.

LTX from Owen W has been around for a long time and many of his apps are available on LT.
He is well respected in the industry.
He participates and is invited to the AD Cad University does that make him a hack doing
something illegal. I don't think so.

[rkmcswain]

That is a less than a convincing analogy.

You misunderstood the context of that analogy. I was specifically talking about CADaver's statement -> "Integrity is doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do."

It's already been said... LT was designed as a crippled version of full AutoCAD. It's lower cost reflects that. The full capability of AutoCAD is available (as AutoCAD).

If you purchase LT with the goal of enabling the crippled content, how is this any different than say, hacking some time trial software so that it runs forever?

[Josh Nieman]

Everyone knows the intent of LT was to provide a less robust version of AutoCAD to those with less than robust budgets.  Certain aspects of the applications were crippled to accomplish that goal.  If you need the full function software, buy it.

Integrity is doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do.

Amen.

If you pulled up to a gas station and the pump was somehow messed up and allowed you pump all the gas you wanted for free - would you do it just because you COULD?

That is a less than a convincing analogy.

It assumes that someone is stealing something or breaking the law in someway.

No one here has be able to prove to me that if I use one of these product that I am
in fact doing anything other that making my life easier.

You gas analogy could be turned on you when the manufacture tells you that you
can only use the gas in your mower. The same gas for the car will be $2.00 extra
and if you put the mower gas in the car you are breaking the law.

LTX from Owen W has been around for a long time and many of his apps are available on LT.
He is well respected in the industry.
He participates and is invited to the AD Cad University does that make him a hack doing
something illegal. I don't think so.

The wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round... 'round and 'round... 'round and 'round... the wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round... all through the town.

[M-dub]

You know when you're doing a 'custom' installation of some big software and you check off the items you want to have installed and uncheck the items you don't?  It would be nice if you could pay for AutoCAD based on those items.  I realize that would be a nightmare for billing, etc. but still, it would be nice.

Similarly, I've always thought the same about cable tv service.  I wish I could pay for the 7 or 8 channels I watch and NOT for the 30 other ones that I don't.

[Josh Nieman]

You know when you're doing a 'custom' installation of some big software and you check off the items you want to have installed and uncheck the items you don't?  It would be nice if you could pay for AutoCAD based on those items.  I realize that would be a nightmare for billing, etc. but still, it would be nice.

Similarly, I've always thought the same about cable tv service.  I wish I could pay for the 7 or 8 channels I watch and NOT for the 30 other ones that I don't.

That would be pretty sweet.  Of course it would be a billing nightmare, because you can always go back and install components you didn't, at first, and then you're sending invoices out more than once a year and...  yea... that would be a nightmare for the number of customers they have.  Would be cool too... ESPECIALLY for TV.

[M-dub]

You know when you're doing a 'custom' installation of some big software and you check off the items you want to have installed and uncheck the items you don't?  It would be nice if you could pay for AutoCAD based on those items.  I realize that would be a nightmare for billing, etc. but still, it would be nice.

Similarly, I've always thought the same about cable tv service.  I wish I could pay for the 7 or 8 channels I watch and NOT for the 30 other ones that I don't.

That would be pretty sweet.  Of course it would be a billing nightmare, because you can always go back and install components you didn't, at first, and then you're sending invoices out more than once a year and...  yea... that would be a nightmare for the number of customers they have.  Would be cool too... ESPECIALLY for TV.

I guess I meant more like it would be nice if you could 'build' your AutoCAD before it's shipped to you like you can do when 'building' a Dell.  "Ok, I want this, this, this and this.  I don't need all that other stuff."

[StykFacE]

That is a less than a convincing analogy.

It assumes that someone is stealing something or breaking the law in someway.

No one here has be able to prove to me that if I use one of these product that I am
in fact doing anything other that making my life easier.

You gas analogy could be turned on you when the manufacture tells you that you
can only use the gas in your mower. The same gas for the car will be $2.00 extra
and if you put the mower gas in the car you are breaking the law.

Well if the manufacturer has an EULA that says you can only use their gas in a mower, then it would be breaking the law. Because it's the manufacturer's gas, and they are providing you their product/service under their own specific conditions. Same as LT. RK quoted the EULA that specifically states you cannot enable the disabled portions of this particular software. How you are skewing the context of that contract is beyond me. You are simply locked in to the thought that it's not wrong, no matter what the contract says for the use of LT.  :ugly:

[Gazza]

That is a less than a convincing analogy.

It assumes that someone is stealing something or breaking the law in someway.

No one here has be able to prove to me that if I use one of these product that I am
in fact doing anything other that making my life easier.

You gas analogy could be turned on you when the manufacture tells you that you
can only use the gas in your mower. The same gas for the car will be $2.00 extra
and if you put the mower gas in the car you are breaking the law.

Well if the manufacturer has an EULA that says you can only use their gas in a mower, then it would be breaking the law. Because it's the manufacturer's gas, and they are providing you their product/service under their own specific conditions. Same as LT. RK quoted the EULA that specifically states you cannot enable the disabled portions of this particular software. How you are skewing the context of that contract is beyond me. You are simply locked in to the thought that it's not wrong, no matter what the contract says for the use of LT.  :ugly:

And if you don't challenge anything you will become a Moron!