### Author Topic: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day  (Read 11816 times)

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#### Arizona

• Guest
##### "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« on: September 27, 2007, 11:15:51 AM »
If a technician inserts a border that is 30” x 42”
Into a drawing that is at an unknown scale…
And that technician has to scale the border up or down to fit around the contents
Then the technician prints this drawing to a piece of paper using a “scale to fit” option

What is the actual size of the drawing?

The "E Size" drawing used for this test came out at 26-1/4” by 36”

Is it only me that is missing the logic here?

#### deegeecees

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2007, 11:32:44 AM »
Is there any way to check a dimension against a distance command?

#### Greg B

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2007, 11:39:05 AM »
97% of the scale it was printed at

#### Josh Nieman

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2007, 11:43:44 AM »
There's no scale to the drawing other than a "bastard scale" as we call it.

Using scale to fit, and using the randomly scaled title block as the plot area extents introduces variables to the plot scale multiple times, which makes it not a set scale.

The way I deal with it is usually take an engineer's scale and place it on a hopefully-round-number dimension like 50' or 100' or something, and try to match it up to tick marks on one of the scales, and jot down a note for reference, such as (1.2" = 100') or something.  It's usually a very nasty number that requires a lot of calculator work to work with the drawing.

Otherwise I'd suggest LE's method, if you are trying to fix the 'problem'
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 11:44:47 AM by Josh Nieman »

#### LE

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2007, 11:51:22 AM »
Otherwise I'd suggest LE's method, if you are trying to fix the 'problem'

Quote
...

(this LE's needs more coffee....)

edit by me base on:
http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=19105.msg232090#msg232090
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 01:14:22 PM by LE »

#### deegeecees

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2007, 11:54:59 AM »
I was wondering where you went.

#### LE

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2007, 12:00:11 PM »
I was wondering where you went.

Did a quick, water check of the parrots.....

#### deegeecees

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2007, 12:09:08 PM »
I was wondering where you went.

Did a quick, water check of the parrots.....

*singing to "The Offspring" 's version of "Gotta Keep Em Separated"*        "Gotta keep em hy-drated!"

#### Josh Nieman

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2007, 12:10:39 PM »
I was wondering where you went.

Did a quick, water check of the parrots.....

*singing to "The Offspring" 's version of "Gotta Keep Em Separated"*        "Gotta keep em hy-drated!"

I'm hungry... the only bird's I'm thinking of Better be marinated

#### deegeecees

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2007, 12:15:09 PM »

#### Arizona

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2007, 12:15:37 PM »
Actually this was originally created in Microstation... but the Cad system is independent of this thought process...

And my fix is much more hard core!

#### Josh Nieman

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2007, 12:17:25 PM »
Actually this was originally created in Microstation... but the Cad system is independent of this thought process...

And my fix is much more hard core!

Yea, I went back to edit my post to take account for Microstation, and I'm not sure, but I thought someone had mentioned Microstation having a similar paperspace/modelspace interface, so I left my post as-is until I knew otherwise.

#### Arizona

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2007, 12:53:00 PM »
Yea, I went back to edit my post to take account for Microstation, and I'm not sure, but I thought someone had mentioned Microstation having a similar paperspace/modelspace interface, so I left my post as-is until I knew otherwise.
They do have something "similar". You xref the model to a sheet.

However, since I know you come across these same kind of issues (the kind that makes you say...WTF were they thinking?), I thought we needed a place where we could put them.
I wasn't really asking anyone to solve the issue. It was more of a "Do people really think?" type of question.

#### Rob...

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2007, 01:04:09 PM »
Why would you put air diffusers and tags and remove VAV boxes from a piping drawing just prior to 90% progress submission?

#### Josh Nieman

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2007, 01:05:47 PM »
Yea, I went back to edit my post to take account for Microstation, and I'm not sure, but I thought someone had mentioned Microstation having a similar paperspace/modelspace interface, so I left my post as-is until I knew otherwise.
They do have something "similar". You xref the model to a sheet.

However, since I know you come across these same kind of issues (the kind that makes you say...WTF were they thinking?), I thought we needed a place where we could put them.
I wasn't really asking anyone to solve the issue. It was more of a "Do people really think?" type of question.

I'm sorry, I didn't think of it as a repeatable thread like the "Dontcha jus' hate" types.  I thought you were trying to ask for a solution

#### LE

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2007, 01:08:38 PM »
I wasn't really asking anyone to solve the issue. It was more of a "Do people really think?" type of question.

see... that's why I removed my answer....

let's remove it again..... !

#### Josh Nieman

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2007, 01:09:24 PM »
Back on topic...

Why won't my dimensions be consistent when the text doesn't fit between extension lines?  It seems to randomly add a leader and go out at an angle when I place the dimension, or sometimes go straight to the left or right, beside it... but never consistent! grr...
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 01:10:52 PM by Josh Nieman »

#### Bob Garner

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2007, 01:39:17 PM »
Yeah, Josh, I experience that independant, "ACAD is gonna do it it's own way" dimensions, too.  Usually it will plop the dimension down on top of another.

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2007, 04:26:49 PM »
If a technician inserts a border that is 30” x 42”
Into a drawing that is at an unknown scale…
And that technician has to scale the border up or down to fit around the contents
Then the technician prints this drawing to a piece of paper using a “scale to fit” option

What is the actual size of the drawing?

The "E Size" drawing used for this test came out at 26-1/4” by 36”

Is it only me that is missing the logic here?
Okay, clear up a couple of things for me here (unless I missed something in the posts being deleted and edited) I REALLY wish folks won't do that, it mucks with the train of the thread

1.)  Why is the scale “unknown”?  Should be easy to deduce.
2.)  Why not attempt to properly scale the border upon insertion, and then you know the plot scale?
3.)  If he inserted an E-size border, why plot (to fit) to a smaller sheet?  What did he plot, Limits, Window, Extents, Display, View??

#### Josh Nieman

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2007, 04:31:55 PM »
If a technician inserts a border that is 30” x 42”
Into a drawing that is at an unknown scale…
And that technician has to scale the border up or down to fit around the contents
Then the technician prints this drawing to a piece of paper using a “scale to fit” option

What is the actual size of the drawing?

The "E Size" drawing used for this test came out at 26-1/4” by 36”

Is it only me that is missing the logic here?
Okay, clear up a couple of things for me here (unless I missed something in the posts being deleted and edited) I REALLY wish folks won't do that, it mucks with the train of the thread

1.)  Why is the scale “unknown”?  Should be easy to deduce.
2.)  Why not attempt to properly scale the border upon insertion, and then you know the plot scale?
3.)  If he inserted an E-size border, why plot (to fit) to a smaller sheet?  What did he plot, Limits, Window, Extents, Display, View??

The questions were rhetorical.  It's basically a thread to vent about those quirky things that come along to us CAD folk. (correct me if I'm wrong, Arizona)  You may find this thread disinteresting since your CAD world is so perfect and precise, though, Randy
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 04:43:49 PM by Josh Nieman »

#### Maverick®

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2007, 04:37:27 PM »
The questions were rhetorical.  It's basically a thread to vent about those quirky things that come along to us CAD folk.  You may find this thread disinteresting since your CAD world is so perfect and precise, though, Randy    (correct me if I'm wrong, Arizona)

How would she know if Randy's CAD world is perfect and precise?

#### Josh Nieman

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2007, 04:44:16 PM »
The questions were rhetorical.  It's basically a thread to vent about those quirky things that come along to us CAD folk.  You may find this thread disinteresting since your CAD world is so perfect and precise, though, Randy    (correct me if I'm wrong, Arizona)

How would she know if Randy's CAD world is perfect and precise?

Fixed..  That's what I get for going and working on something else, then coming back and adding a sentence in the middle without re-reading it.

#### Tuoni

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2007, 04:46:01 PM »
How would she know if Randy's CAD world is perfect and precise?
He spends so long telling us it is....

#### Josh Nieman

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2007, 04:49:26 PM »
How would she know if Randy's CAD world is perfect and precise?
He spends so long telling us it is....

I didn't say it!

#### Maverick®

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2007, 04:50:54 PM »
Fixed..  That's what I get for going and working on something else, then coming back and adding a sentence in the middle without re-reading it.

I'm just glad I get to preserve it.

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2007, 04:53:16 PM »
He spends so long telling us it is....
And somebody finally listened....

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2007, 04:56:10 PM »
The questions were rhetorical.  It's basically a thread to vent about those quirky things that come along to us CAD folk.
Ahhh.... you guys need bigger teeth farther up the food chain, eh?

You may find this thread disinteresting since your CAD world is so perfect and precise, though, Randy
Dunno about perfect and precise, but it's MY way, and that's good enough for me.

#### Tuoni

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2007, 05:25:04 PM »
He spends so long telling us it is....
And somebody finally listened....
I would say by Josh's immediate edit it was more a "slip of the tongue"

#### Josh Nieman

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2007, 05:27:14 PM »
He spends so long telling us it is....
And somebody finally listened....
I would say by Josh's immediate edit it was more a "slip of the tongue"

I didn't remove anything.  I just reorganized it to make it, hopefully, less confusing.

#### Maverick®

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2007, 05:47:46 PM »
but it's MY way, and that's good enough for me.

I have this really strange combination of Frank Sinatra and Cookie Monster singing in my head.

#### Arizona

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2007, 05:57:47 PM »
Okay, clear up a couple of things for me here (unless I missed something in the posts being deleted and edited) I REALLY wish folks won't do that, it mucks with the train of the thread

1.)  Why is the scale “unknown”?  Should be easy to deduce.
2.)  Why not attempt to properly scale the border upon insertion, and then you know the plot scale?
3.)  If he inserted an E-size border, why plot (to fit) to a smaller sheet?  What did he plot, Limits, Window, Extents, Display, View??

Therein lies part of the reason why this was a "stupid" question of the day.
When I asked the question, the technician looked at me (deadly serious) and says "we have to use this 30" x 42" size so everything fits".
Upon investigating and getting a better understanding of the situation...
I realize that this clearly shows some training issues, among other things.

#### deegeecees

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2007, 10:43:42 PM »
but it's MY way, and that's good enough for me.

I have this really strange combination of Frank Sinatra and Cookie Monster singing in my head.

My brain just tweaked. Dood, thats just funny.

#### Maverick®

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• Posts: 14778
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2007, 08:16:20 AM »
My brain just tweaked. Dood, thats just funny.

Isn't it a little disturbing that my brain was tweaked that way to begin with?

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2007, 08:44:55 AM »
but it's MY way, and that's good enough for me.

I have this really strange combination of Frank Sinatra and Cookie Monster singing in my head.
I don't care who you are, that's funny.

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2007, 08:46:43 AM »
Therein lies part of the reason why this was a "stupid" question of the day.
ahhh... okay, I'm up to speed now, missed a cup of coffee or two...

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2007, 08:47:29 AM »
Isn't it a little disturbing that my brain was tweaked that way to begin with?
That YOUR brain .... nah .... never mind....

#### Kate M

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2007, 12:27:24 PM »
but it's MY way, and that's good enough for me.

I have this really strange combination of Frank Sinatra and Cookie Monster singing in my head.

#### Kerry

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2007, 08:50:46 PM »
Isn't it a little disturbing that my brain was tweaked that way to begin with?
That YOUR brain .... nah .... never mind....

Quote
Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious.
~ George Orwell
kdub, kdub_nz in other timelines.
Perfection is not optional.
Everything will work just as you expect it to, unless your expectations are incorrect.
Discipline: None at all.

#### Maverick®

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2007, 09:05:21 PM »
Hey!  ........

#### Josh Nieman

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2007, 07:54:23 PM »
....why some engineers feel they have to change drawings and mess with them... for no conceivable reason other than to mess with them.

How does this somehow make my drawing more accurate, less fallible, or otherwise worth the time I wasted pulling off my current job, onto this one, just to change this little piece of text?  I editted my dimension on the footing section to read <> x 3'-0" where '<>' is 3'-0"

Somehow my drawing is now better because he made me change the NAME of the view from "Section C - Typical End Wall Footing" to "Section C - 3'-0"x3'-0" Footing" and leave the dimension as "<>"

...  If anything, that makes my drawing MORE vague and unorganized.

Then when I confront him about this and a couple other callout changes he 'requested' and told him "This is NEVER how we do things.  We have a history of consistency in all our drawings that I've worked hard to maintain which has been encouraged by all principals until now" (the engineer requesting these changes is the VP of the company) and his response is simply "Yea, but we're just gonna do it this way on this project"   "Why?"  "Just do it, Josh..."

#### mjfarrell

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2007, 08:07:09 PM »
y'know I once got in dutch with some folks because I kept asking what their standard was, only every time they told me it was quickly followed by; "only not on this job it was done this way..."   and yet I was the bad guy when I told then that I was confused, because each time I asked what standard to use, the standard would be explained, only then I would be told to do other than the standard....

Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

#### Josh Nieman

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2007, 08:12:42 PM »
y'know I once got in dutch with some folks because I kept asking what their standard was, only every time they told me it was quickly followed by; "only not on this job it was done this way..."   and yet I was the bad guy when I told then that I was confused, because each time I asked what standard to use, the standard would be explained, only then I would be told to do other than the standard....

I just wish I knew what to expect.  That's the main purpose of doing things one way, and sticking to it... so you don't have to waste time on pointless redlines because someone had a tickly fancy whimsy.  This project would have been done in 7 hours total.  It took 4 sheets, total.  Title Sheet, Floor Plan, Elevations, Foundation Plan & Details.  Someone else is doing elec. and civil.  Instead I have wasted more hours on stupid redlines and pointless "Hey Josh, let's go over these plans again" meetings that basically amount to me sitting in the chair while he reviews the drawings as if I am not a simple intercom-phone-button-push away if a question arises.  So now I have 19 hours on this job, rather than 7... no telling what the engineer has wasted on it, who charges almost double for his time, than mine.

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2007, 08:26:03 PM »
Josh, The dudes just eating into your Bonus/Profit deal.

#### Josh Nieman

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2007, 08:33:54 PM »
Josh, The dudes just eating into your Bonus/Profit deal.

That too.

#### Maverick®

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2007, 10:40:40 PM »
So now I have 19 hours on this job, rather than 7...

Are you paid by the hour?

#### Josh Nieman

• Guest
##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2007, 07:58:45 AM »
So now I have 19 hours on this job, rather than 7...

Are you paid by the hour?

As soon as someone starts spouting "I don't care, I get paid by the hour" they may as well quit right then, because they've obviously lost any interest or pride in their work, and are only there for the paycheck.  Those people usually only work hard enough to not get fired.

#### jonesy

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##### Re: "Stupid" Cad Question of the Day
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2007, 08:08:44 AM »
I dont care, cos I do get paid by the hour... as long as its not my fault the drawings are wrong, then generally, I'm reasonably ok (Alright there are times where I've worked and reworked the drawings and I'm sick of the sight of them)

Sometimes they change because the client changes their mind... sometimes they change because the price has come in too high, but my job is to create and change the drawings... and that is what I do to the best of my ability

Change is part of the design process, I have learned to accept it
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.