Topic: What is Carlson Civil/Survey

[Draftingfool]

So if one takes the Intellicad route the dwg is still in 2004 format? 

I just installed Carlson Civil 2009 on 'built-in' Intellicad 6.4, created and saved a new drawing in 2007 dwg format. It looks like I could have saved it in any version back to 2.5, but 2007 was the default.

[Dinosaur]

Excellent news, thank you.  The last I knew the Intellicad versions working with the verticals were still all basically equal to 2006 AutoCAD.  This makes the change much more attractive.  Now if it could run on Linux or BSD Intellicad, just imagine the uproar!

[jnieman]

Well, unless Autodesk collapses, which is about as likely as an industry giant like Behr-Stearns or Lehman Brothers collapsing.

In order to collapse, Autodesk would need to do something REALLY stupid, like move to a drastically more-complicated set of software that has huge learning curves and takes a lot of effort to learn.  And they would need to do that in different directions in each niche, so that the product the Architects use won't work with the product the MEP guys use which won't work with the product the Civil guys use which won't work with the product the GIS guys use.  Now if they were stupid enough to do something like that, they might have trouble brewing...   

sinc must be the local busdriver in San Rafael, because he just took Autodesk to SCHOOL!

[Draftingfool]

Thanks to That CAD Girl (Jennifer DiBona), here are three 5 minute videos that are not as intense as the 1 hour webinars, but give some good examples of Carlson 2009 features.

http://thatcadgirl.com/Videos/intelliCAD_overview/intelliCAD_overview.html

http://thatcadgirl.com/Videos/LotNet_2009/LotNet_2009.html

http://thatcadgirl.com/Videos/RoadNet_2009/RoadNet_2009.html

It looks like her home page has a sign-up for a free copy of Carlson Civil too!

[gskelly]

I could well be wrong but I think the IntelliCAD engines will save new format (2007) DWG's but do not support entities newer that 2002.

[sinc]

I've heard it said that the Intellicad engine is reminiscent of R11 Autocad.  I know one company that tried the Carlson/Intellicad version, and gave up on it because the Intellicad engine still has too far to go.  But that probably depends on how effectively you use Autocad to start with.  Some people have Civil-3D, but use hardly any features that weren't in R11 Autocad, so there are all types.  Some might like the Intellicad engine just fine.  I haven't tried it yet myself.

[It's Alive!]

FYI, Intellicad and some of the other clones (Bricscad & ZwCad) now use the ODA libraries to manipulate the DWG database.
The ODA libraries do support post acad 2002 entities such as Tables and Fields, and they also support custom objects.

The problem is that Intellicad & Clones have not yet implemented the objects in their editors.

[rkmcswain]

I've heard it said that the Intellicad engine is reminiscent of R11 Autocad.  I know one company that tried the Carlson/Intellicad version, and gave up on it because the Intellicad engine still has too far to go.  But that probably depends on how effectively you use Autocad to start with.

I think that has everything to do with it.

If you are a light CAD user and generally draw lines, arcs, and text, put a border on it, plot and you are done, then IntelliCAD may seem like the best thing in the world, because it's cheap and it does what you want. On the other hand, if you are a well-versed AutoCAD user, then you a probably going to be frustrated and end up saying that IntelliCAD is worth exactly what it cost... Both viewpoints are true, it just depends on your perspective.

[Dent Cermak]

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water now. The Intellicad version will naturally have the weaknesses of that program bought over, but don't forget, this is not the only platform on which Carlson will run.  Some will not want to go the Civil3D route and Carlson is a viable option for them. You then have 2 real good choices. (1) You can run the Carlson Stand-Alone Version, or (2) you can load Carlson on top of AutoCad Map or plain jane AutoCad. All work equally as well.
If you have problems with Intellicad, that's fine, but remember that is not the only option available to you. There are 2 or 3 other ways to go to implement this product that do work well.
The Intellicad option is the newest way to go and improvements in the base product are bound to result as this option grows in popularity. What Intellicad fails to do will be availabe in the Carlson side of the menu. The programmers were working on the package when I was in the Carlson school. As we all know, new releases with actual changes and improvements do come fron some software packages.

[tworley]

I have used Carlson, C3D and Land Desktop and really like all 3. I am a land surveyor and for strictly "survey" functionality, I.E. Boundary resolution and traverse reduction, Carlson definately holds it's own. For any kind of design I strongly recomend the Civil 3D or Civil. Having said that, my engineers are extremely happy that we made the decision to go with Civil on the survey side. This allows us to work seamlessly from survey through design and on to construction staking. A vast majority of our stakeout work is done via an XML export from Civil 3D. There has been some bumps but overall we are very satisfied.

   If I was strictly involved with land surveying I might look at the Carlson a little closer but more and more you will be seeing engineers asking for Civil 3d format DWG. There is also a version that is just called Civil 2009 that doesn't include the hydro and is limited on the GIS functionality. For surveyors this is as good as a full seat of C3D for 20% less money.

[sinc]

For surveyors this is as good as a full seat of C3D for 20% less money.

We use the Map drawing cleanup tools extensively.  As a Surveyor, I could not see trying to use C3D without the drawing cleanup tools.  Now if Autocad moved the Drawing Cleanup tools to Vanilla Autocad, we'd be getting somewhere.  We also use Map Queries from time to time, and those were VERY useful in the past, but since C3D is incompatible with Map Queries, those aren't as useful as they once were, and we could actually get by at this point without those.  But those Drawing Cleanup tools are a different story.

[rkmcswain]

...As a Surveyor, I could not see trying to use C3D without the drawing cleanup tools.
We also use Map Queries from time to time, and those were VERY useful in the past, but since C3D is incompatible with Map Queries, those aren't as useful as they once were, and we could actually get by at this point without those.

Civil 3D is built on AutoCAD Map, so the drawing cleanup tool is there as well as all of the other Map features, such as the Map Queries.

[sinc]

Civil 3D is built on AutoCAD Map, so the drawing cleanup tool is there as well as all of the other Map features, such as the Map Queries.

Huh...

The press releases I saw said that Autocad Civil was the same thing as Civil 3D, except without the Map tools...  Maybe I misread it.

[rkmcswain]

The press releases I saw said that Autocad Civil was the same thing as Civil 3D, except without the Map tools...  Maybe I misread it.

Well, you did say C3D, which is the commonly accepted abbreviation for Civil 3D.
You may be right though, plain Civil may not be built on Map. Maybe someone who knows for sure can chime in...

[sinc]

I don't know...  If you look back, you'll see someone mentioned that Autodesk Civil was a good deal for Surveyors, and was like getting C3D for 20% off.  Then I said I couldn't see trying to use C3D without the Map tools, because that's basically what Autodesk Civil is (or so I was lead to believe).  The jump was probably that I didn't specifically mention the fact that, from what I've seen, the only difference between C3D and Civil is the Map tools (and the hydrology extensions do not come with Civil).

I have never understood how removing one of the most useful tools from Civil 3D would make it good for Surveyors.