Topic: What is Carlson Civil/Survey

[Mark]

http://www.carlsonsw.com/

Carlson Civil 2009

A superior choice for civil technicians, designers and engineers, Carlson Civil 2009 is the flagship engineering office product from Carlson Software that will increase your productivity as it enables you to create better designs in less time. Carlson Civil 2009 is available now. To find a Carlson dealer near you, click here.

Carlson Civil 2009 provides the highest level of robust automation and ease-of-use of any civil design solution available today. What used to be difficult, time-consuming procedures are accomplished quickly and easily thanks to the Carlson Civil 2009 wide selection of “power” tools – dozens of brand new commands, along with hundreds of user-driven improvements.

NEW this year, in addition to Carlson Civil 2009 running on top of any AutoCAD® or Map® versions 2000, up to and including 2009, Carlson Civil comes with built-in IntelliCAD® -- a robust, DWG-compatible CAD platform that every CAD developer can build upon) for no extra cost with every license of Carlson products.

Built from the Carlson SurvCADD product line, first introduced in 1989, Carlson Civil 2009 has the deepest, most consistent code base in the civil engineering industry. It's the CADD solution that Simply WORKS!

Carlson Survey

Carlson Survey 2007 Standalone and Carlson Survey 2007 For AutoCAD
Increase accuracy, plus save time and money with Carlson Survey 2009, our most productive and intuitive survey solution yet. Representing the culmination of 25 years of progress by Carlson Software in the development of surveying software, Carlson Survey 2009 features the exclusive SurvNet and 100s of features based on
user input and designed to allow users to do more, do it better and in less time. Carlson Survey 2009 is available now. To locate a Carlson dealer ready to serve you, click here.

NEW this year, in addition to Carlson Survey 2009 running on top of any AutoCAD® or Map® versions 2000, up to and including 2009, Carlson Survey comes with built-in IntelliCAD® -- a robust, DWG-compatible CAD platform that every CAD developer can build upon, making it both a for AutoCAD and a "standalone" product.

Includes SurvNET Network Least Squares, now essential for survey adjustment, and an enhanced LotNET, the most remarkable set of tools for automatic rule-based lot layout available anywhere.

[Dinosaur]

I am curious in how Carlson is different from Land Desktop.  Does it have tools missing from LDT or is it the same set of wrenches in a different box?  The idea to include Intellicad is interesting depending on the version of Intellicad.  It seems that the newest available Intellicad is always at least 1 or 2 years behind the current Autodesk offerings in features.

[Mark]

I would like to know more about "SurvNET Network Least Squares". Is it one of those "Click here for Least Squares Adjustment" or is it more, like the ability to weight individual stations, measurements and control points. Who wrote the code for it?

[Swift]

I would like to know more about "SurvNET Network Least Squares". Is it one of those "Click here for Least Squares Adjustment" or is it more, like the ability to weight individual stations, measurements and control points. Who wrote the code for it?

It's my understanding that the code for it came from the gentlemen who use to write the C&G package but I maybe mistaken. I have the software but I have never used the SiteNET functions. These days I just do layout from provided control so adjustments aren't that big of a deal for me.

[Dent Cermak]

I attended the webinar on SurvNet. Yeah, the guy from C&G wrote the software and he moderated the webinar. It allows for total adjustment of all points, sections and measurements. So much so that, if you do not really know what you are doing, you can force a closure that may not be accurate. Our surveyors are not totally sold on it yet. Many of our clients want us to show the precision of closure on our surveys. SurvNet did not give this information initially. We requested that this be added, but I do not know if that has been done yet.
Carlson software gives the surveyor pretty much the same tools as LDD. In some areas it gives you more tools. BUT as I have stated before, it appears, right now, the software is designed for Surveyors, but does not have everything a picky drafter will want. There are compromises and work arounds to be discovered. It's an ideal package for small operations. If you are running the gun during the day and drawing and stamping plats at night, this is your software. The price is right and you will have the tools you need.
Am I in a rush to give up my LDD or Civil3D? Not just yet. They are adding to their package everyday and are responsive to customer request. They will soon be the new "Softdesk", which, IMHO, was the penultimate survey software that AutoDesk purchased and ruined. Had they given the lead to the Softdesk guys for their survey package we would not be having this discussion.
You also have to evaluate costs. The standalone package is less costly than LDD. I think the pack on Intellicad may be too, but I have not really looked at the latest price sheet.
Right now, the software is a "Viable option". They have full Civil packages, mining packages and a whole bunch of other stuff available. I am just playing with the Survey part. Both packages have their pluses and minuses. Get the demo discs. I am trying to get a real Carlson guy to come on this site and field your questions, comments and concerns. It would be better to get your info from a Carlson guy. Not saying that I would lead you astray, but........................... :whistle:

[Draftingfool]

I am curious in how Carlson is different from Land Desktop.  Does it have tools missing from LDT or is it the same set of wrenches in a different box? 

I will try not to be a commercial for Carlson, but we switched from Land Desktop over 7 years ago now and never really looked back.
At that time, Carlson "SurvCadd" was much like Land Desktop, but it also had tools missing from LDD. I remember seeing the graphical road template editor, and a ton of 3D polyline commands including the "line following existing ground at set grade" mentioned here in topic 24719. The price and free technical support sealed the deal.

In the last couple of years, Carlson dropped the SurvCadd name and introduced what they call "network-style" commands that provide very powerful and dynamic automation features.  Check out the RoadNet, SiteNet or LotNet webinars at http://update.carlsonsw.com/movies/   - Definately not the same wrenches

Intellicad 6.4 is the version included with Carlson 2009. I haven't played with it much, but here is the Carlson page that covers it http://www.carlsonsw.com/IntelliCADInfo.htm

[Dent Cermak]

Possibly lurking in the wings is a young man (an I use this term VERY loosely!) named Darryll Bowser. He's a PLS from Virginia and the Survey instructor at Carlson College. He has agreed to drop in from time to time to answer some of your Carlson questions. I am sure that once he figures out how to sign up and log on (I never claimed he was brilliant!!) he will hop on in and field your questions. [I must also explain that there were 2 students in my class, so Dwrry7ll was closed up in a room with me for 4 long days. He may need more time to fully recuperate, but I don't think there was any permanent damage done, I hope.]
(And Before Maverick asks, he is not the guy from ShaNaNa.)

[Dinosaur]

I will try not to be a commercial for Carlson, but we switched from Land Desktop over 7 years ago now and never really looked back.

No . . . please talk up the product and give people reasons to change other than it is NOT Land Desktop.  LDT fans are showing amazing resistance to change to Civil 3D even in the face of imminent LDT retirement and it won't be any easier to get them to change to Carlson.

Intellicad 6.4 is the version included with Carlson 2009. I haven't played with it much, but here is the Carlson page that covers it http://www.carlsonsw.com/IntelliCADInfo.htm

So if one takes the Intellicad route the dwg is still in 2004 format?  This is the rap on every Intellicad solution I have seen.  That is a lot of core program features I have grown accustomed to and would prefer not lose.

It has been 3 1/2 years since I last fired up LDT intending to do design and I am quite content to keep it that way and have refused to even consider job offers working with any percentage of LDT.  It is also 4 months since I changed direction completely to electrical so I have no dog in this fight at the moment but I know for certain that if I were to try to set up a survey shop tomorrow it would not have an Autodesk product in the door.  Conversely, if it were to be a civil design shop it would be Civil 3D only unless a hungry Bentley rep will let me convince myself Power Civil is a viable option or Alan ever comes in and makes a case for 12D.

[Dent Cermak]

Clarification. One of the engines for Carlson 2009 is Intellicad and there is still an AutoCad based model and a LDD based model.  My training was done on the AutoCad 2009 version. We were told at the school that there would always be an AutoCad based version available. The Intellicad version is just a THIRD option that Carlson offers. There is the Intellicad version, The AutoCad Version and the Standalone version. The expressed intent is to keep it that way. It would not surprise me to see them expand onto other bases also. Maybe an Intergraph version?
And while we are at it, let me say, i haven't thrown away my LDD yet. To me it is VERY easy to use for what I do. I have had no problems with crashing software or whatever. I think that is because I usually wait to load it up AFTER the rest of you have found all of the bugs. I haven't transitioned over to C3D yet, but that is a step on down the road. I do not foresee any transition problems. Not much has changed. Remember, i read all the breast beating and hair pulling, watched what to fix and then made a VERY smooth transition from AutoCad R14/Softdesk8 to LDD 2005. That was a jump. But I had this place to fall back on. Now I am on LDD 2007 and I see no bid to-do's. Study some AGT CD's and move on up. Then I will have C3D and Carlson to play with as the client desires. I can't talk the company into much training, but I can get software. And if the client wants it....done deal, I just have to learn to use it.
So here we go on the Carlson Pony. Hang on for the ride boys! It's gonna be fun!

[Dinosaur]

Thanks Dent . . . I think Carlson could even work on top of Civil 3D at one point - don't know it that is the same now that they ended their "partnership" some time back.  Another option I looked at was EaglePoint.  That happened to be the 2007 flavor that could be installed on top of AutoCAD, Bricscad or MicroStation.  I also took a long look at MicroSurvey that came with an Intellicad equivalent of 2005 AutoCAD.  For my purposes at the time doing residential subdivisions, Civil 3D was the only one in the running.  I never tried Carlson personally but the 2005 version was a one job pony in our office before being delegated to the shelf mostly due to rookie engineer and zero experience tech/drafter.  From there it was a couple years of LDT2005 with a VERY long rough and winding road through Civil 3D 2005-2008.
The big drawback to every LDT alternate except Civil 3D was the incompatibility with the current Autodesk format.  Civil 3D was even worse, being incompatible with EVERYTHING except the same version of itself.

[Dent Cermak]

Thanks Dent . . . I think Carlson could even work on top of Civil 3D at one point - don't know it that is the same now that they ended their "partnership" some time back.  Another option I looked at was EaglePoint.  That happened to be the 2007 flavor that could be installed on top of AutoCAD, Bricscad or MicroStation.  I also took a long look at MicroSurvey that came with an Intellicad equivalent of 2005 AutoCAD.  For my purposes at the time doing residential subdivisions, Civil 3D was the only one in the running.  I never tried Carlson personally but the 2005 version was a one job pony in our office before being delegated to the shelf mostly due to rookie engineer and zero experience tech/drafter.  From there it was a couple years of LDT2005 with a VERY long rough and winding road through Civil 3D 2005-2008.
The big drawback to every LDT alternate except Civil 3D was the incompatibility with the current Autodesk format.  Civil 3D was even worse, being incompatible with EVERYTHING except the same version of itself.

Carlson loads on C3D just fine. Their "partnership" just means they are no longer a VAR. You have to buy your AutoCad base software from someone else now instead of getting a package deal. That stupid action by AutoDesk upset them but it is not a war stopper. They realise they have to support the current formats to remain viable. it looked to me that they shook that off and are moving on. I heard of no plans for them to abandon AutoDesk products. I don't think that will ever happen.

[sinc]

Well, unless Autodesk collapses, which is about as likely as an industry giant like Behr-Stearns or Lehman Brothers collapsing.

In order to collapse, Autodesk would need to do something REALLY stupid, like move to a drastically more-complicated set of software that has huge learning curves and takes a lot of effort to learn.  And they would need to do that in different directions in each niche, so that the product the Architects use won't work with the product the MEP guys use which won't work with the product the Civil guys use which won't work with the product the GIS guys use.  Now if they were stupid enough to do something like that, they might have trouble brewing...   

[Dent Cermak]

Well, unless Autodesk collapses, which is about as likely as an industry giant like Behr-Stearns or Lehman Brothers collapsing.

In order to collapse, Autodesk would need to do something REALLY stupid, like move to a drastically more-complicated set of software that has huge learning curves and takes a lot of effort to learn.  And they would need to do that in different directions in each niche, so that the product the Architects use won't work with the product the MEP guys use which won't work with the product the Civil guys use which won't work with the product the GIS guys use.  Now if they were stupid enough to do something like that, they might have trouble brewing...   

OMG!! YOU JUST DESCRIBED C3D!!   

[Dinosaur]

Well, unless Autodesk collapses, which is about as likely as an industry giant like Behr-Stearns or Lehman Brothers collapsing.

In order to collapse, Autodesk would need to do something REALLY stupid, like move to a drastically more-complicated set of software that has huge learning curves and takes a lot of effort to learn.  And they would need to do that in different directions in each niche, so that the product the Architects use won't work with the product the MEP guys use which won't work with the product the Civil guys use which won't work with the product the GIS guys use.  Now if they were stupid enough to do something like that, they might have trouble brewing...   

As usual sinc, you have said it all

[rkmcswain]

In the last couple of years, Carlson dropped the SurvCadd name and introduced what they call "network-style" commands that provide very powerful and dynamic automation features.  Check out the RoadNet, SiteNet or LotNet webinars at http://update.carlsonsw.com/movies/   - Definately not the same wrenches

I'll throw this in.... Carlson blows away C3D on some things, notable 3D street and intersection design. On the other hand, Carlson is very weak in plan and profile production. One advantage to Carlson is that they are still small enough to be nimble and responsive. If you have a legitimate, reasonable problem that Carlson cannot currently solve, let them know and it's almost certain that you will see it in the next version (at the latest). Autodesk just can't do that. The Carlson UI isn't as polished as C3D, but Carlson has had many tools for years that Autodesk still doesn't have. My suggestion -> get Carlson to perform a demo for you, using your data and your workflow and see if it's a fit....