hehe. I'm still in limbo on the 08 VS 09 issue. I do have to order soon since my time envelope is closing. Every project I do is 3D, and I have lots of code that may or may not be tranferrable from 04 to 08 (09), save for the CUI menu structuring that started in 06, but I've worked with it on other jobs so thats just a necessary evil that I'm itching to scratch.