Author Topic: Architectural Wall Dimensions  (Read 10099 times)

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Bob Garner

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Architectural Wall Dimensions
« on: November 03, 2005, 02:48:15 PM »
O.K., we all know that you should dimension to the face of studs when dimensioning the floor plan of a wood framed building.  So do you draw all the walls framed with 2x4's as 3 1/2" thick?  They look too puny!  But to draw them realistically - 7/8" stucco, 1/2" exterior sheathing, 1/2" gyp bd = 5 3/8+", do you then offset the dimension line to align with the stud line?  I guess you could draw the studlines on the defpoints layer and show the wall outside dimensions but that seems like extra work.

How do others do this?

Thanks all!

Bo

LE

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2005, 03:14:45 PM »
We draw walls as nominal sizes

6"
4"

[unless is a detail] and on floor plans, no need to draw the finish thickness....

Dimensions are shown to "face of stud" , "face of wall" and "columns center"

At least here....

BenJones

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2005, 02:00:00 AM »
I recommend that you draw to scale and dimension well. It will save you time and money in the long run. If you are looking for something that looks good, add rendering.


deegeecees

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2005, 02:45:55 PM »
Yeah, I usually do all framing in 3D, and draw "TO SCALE", can't stress that enough.

Keith™

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2005, 02:55:38 PM »
3 1/2" - 5 1/2" - 7 1/4" - 9 1/4" - 11 1/4" for dimensional lumber
5 1/2" - 7 1/2" - 9 1/2" - 11 1/2" for timbers

All engineered beams = actual dimensions

Floor joists/trusses are 1 1/2" - 2 11/16" - 3 1/2"
Roof trusses/rafters 1 1/2" - 2 11/16" - 3 1/4"

Interior sheathing is subject to change at clients whim so it is not shown ...
Exterior finishes are presumed as being veneered OVER the framing ... (i.e. brick, lap, stone, stucco etc.) Thickness at this point is irrelevant as setbacks apply to overhangs not walls.
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dan19936

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2006, 09:54:03 PM »
O.K., we all know that you should dimension to the face of studs when dimensioning the floor plan of a wood framed building.  So do you draw all the walls framed with 2x4's as 3 1/2" thick?  They look too puny!  But to draw them realistically - 7/8" stucco, 1/2" exterior sheathing, 1/2" gyp bd = 5 3/8+", do you then offset the dimension line to align with the stud line?  I guess you could draw the studlines on the defpoints layer and show the wall outside dimensions but that seems like extra work.

How do others do this?

Thanks all!

Bo

Depends on type of project and scale of drawing:

commercial metal studs with 5/8" gyp at 1/8" scale, typically draw nominal, and allow tolerance in dimensioning to cover actual dimensional differences. I.e. 3-5/8" stud with (2) layers = 4-7/8", draw it 5". Snap to the line and general note whether to stud or finish. Shell construction usually stud, interior t.i. usual finish. Sometime I do move the dim line off the finish when things are tight in cores/stairs/bathrooms.

high end wood framed house at 1/4", I typically draw the studs lines as well as the finish. I don't draw the layers of construction and draw some things nominal like 1/2" sheathing & 7/8" plaster is 1-1/2" offset from stud.

(last word, good dimensioning is an art and takes experience. dim from one point, leave make up dims, think about important relationships and note them, "align" "eq" etc.)

Dan

glee

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2006, 11:18:48 AM »
We draw to scale.  Too many problems can happen if you do nominal.  Especially on public projects where you have to deal with ADA. 

Metal studs are an issue depending on the type of metal stud you are using.  Those 1/8" dimensions are messy, so we try to dimension walls consistently from one face.  Or just use 4&6" metal studs. 

We normally don't draw the finish wall, only stud and structure.  Unless for some reason the finish happens to be an unusual material or thicker or has a impact on what the overall dimensions can be. 

whdjr

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2006, 10:55:02 AM »
Ok I'm a little confused here.  When I say I am 'drawing something to scale' that means that I will draw a detail to 1/8" scale.  Is that what you guys mean when you say 'draw to scale'?  If that is what you mean then that seems like a gross misuse of AutoCad.  You have an infinite modelspace to draw whatever at fullscale.  Why do block inserts have scale factors if your gonna draw it to a scale.  I didn't realize people still drew things to scale anymore.  Maybe I'm naive and sheltered but it just doens't seem like like the program was designed that way.

If I misunderstood your comments I apologize ahead of time.

dan19936

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2006, 11:53:02 AM »
I think "draw precise dimensions" vs. nominal is more accurate. Meaning draw walls 4-7/8" vs. 5".

Dan

Krushert

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2006, 01:02:04 PM »
O.K., we all know that you should dimension to the face of studs when dimensioning the floor plan of a wood framed building.  So do you draw all the walls framed with 2x4's as 3 1/2" thick?  They look too puny!  But to draw them realistically - 7/8" stucco, 1/2" exterior sheathing, 1/2" gyp bd = 5 3/8+", do you then offset the dimension line to align with the stud line?  I guess you could draw the studlines on the defpoints layer and show the wall outside dimensions but that seems like extra work.

My office’s opinion on how we do draw our walls.

Interior walls are drawn as two lines indicating face of finish to face of finish and we typical dimension to the center of the wall or face of finish.

You material list sounds like an exterior wall.  For that we show a line designating the exterior face of stud because exterior face of stud lines up with exterior face of foundation wall.  We then show and a line inboard to show face of finish and we show a line outboard of the stud to show the outer face of finish.   We them dimension to the line indicating the exterior Stud and we note it as being "Face of Foundation"

Depending on scale of the drawing (1/4” or smaller) we show lines for the studs, but we don’t change our dimension practices.  Our philosophy on this reason, we make the contractor to do the math because all we care about is the end product not how he gets there.  as soon as we start doing the thinking for the contractor, the price goes some how.
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glee

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2006, 07:19:03 PM »
Ok I'm a little confused here.  When I say I am 'drawing something to scale' that means that I will draw a detail to 1/8" scale.  Is that what you guys mean when you say 'draw to scale'?  If that is what you mean then that seems like a gross misuse of AutoCad.  You have an infinite modelspace to draw whatever at fullscale.  Why do block inserts have scale factors if your gonna draw it to a scale.  I didn't realize people still drew things to scale anymore.  Maybe I'm naive and sheltered but it just doens't seem like like the program was designed that way.

If I misunderstood your comments I apologize ahead of time.
Sorry.  Meant we draw full size and we draw the correct dimension of the stud.  1 1/2 x 3 1/2" for a 2x4 stud. 

whdjr

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2006, 11:19:10 PM »
Whew,  I'm glad we're drawing the same way.  You had me going there for a minute. 

We draw everything in 'Actual' size as well.

glee

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2006, 12:50:11 PM »
Ok.  Glad that's out of the way.  Another reason why we dimension to face of structure or stud versus finish is because it's easier to know where your structure or studs are going to be.  If we are using concrete or steel columns we use their grids. 

Sometimes with interior walls, you may end up with 1/2" gypbd and 5/8" gypbd on certain walls.  If you are offsetting all those finishes, what happens if you decide to change a partition type?  Some walls may have hat channels because of acoustics and some walls may have a layer of gypbd and then 1/2" or 5/8" cement backer board over. 
So we lay out the structure and wall locations.  Use partition details to let them know the systems and let the contractor figure out the rest of it in the field.  As long as you are consistent with your drawings and make sure that all your callouts are properly referenced, they should for the most part have no problems with it. 

Oh, we dimension the walls in a consistent direction.  So if you start from one side of a wall, we try to keep it the same.  Plus we find the most appropriate place to omit a string and use an overall dimension to give them slack room.  usually the slack room is where it doesn't impact openings or ADA clearances. 


CottageCGirl

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2006, 02:09:23 PM »
Sorry for the tardy reply (nover read this post)....
Never use nominal dimensions especially in a large project.  You will end up with Creep...meaning, if you are a 1/4" off on each column or stud, you will be off say.....4" overall over 16 columns or studs, an interiors person would kill you in a commercial setting. and if your Creep shows -4" and there is a +2" construction error, that means your space is off 6"and that could mean a fire code violation in a tightly designed space.
We use all accurate dimensions and will detail if needed
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dan19936

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2006, 02:57:12 PM »
Never use nominal dimensions especially in a large project.  You will end up with Creep...m

Back in the day when drawing by hand, all walls were nominal, never could measure 3-5/8" on my 1/8" architectural scale...
Never let AutoCAD tell you what a dimension should be, the designer needs to know why a measurement, clearance, space, etc . is what it is. You can draw nominal and dimension accurately. If I decide to add tile/stone/extra layer gyp bd to a wall, I'm not going to go in and revise the cad for that extra layers' thickness. And I don't override the dimensions, I just move them off the cad lines as necessary to show the right measurement. If I do override a dimension it usually goes with 'VIF', though we do round (using precision display) to the nearest inch/half-inch frequently. Why ask someone to layout to 30'-0 5/8" when 30'-1" will do. (unless that 5/8" is really important!) I always tell the story of one of my junior guys dimensioning a deck draing to 3/256" and the superintendant never let him forget it! Contractor's never understand "that's just AutoCAD", they think you really meant it.

Dan

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2006, 03:49:59 PM »
  It just makes things go quicker.  You don't have to spend so much time laughing/throwing things when you have new teenage hires come on the job and call out a measurement of "46 and 3 little lines past a half" (true story)

CottageCGirl

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2006, 03:53:36 PM »
  It just makes things go quicker.  You don't have to spend so much time laughing/throwing things when you have new teenage hires come on the job and call out a measurement of "46 and 3 little lines past a half" (true story)

Or how about the woman training me at my last job, couldnt figure out why her scale was sooooo far off, I had to figure out how to tell her that she was using an engineering scale, not an architects scale?!?!?!?!?!?
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Maverick®

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2006, 03:56:43 PM »
  Sure she didn't call it a "ruler".

  *high school tech teacher* "There is only one ruler in this class and that's me!"

glee

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2006, 07:14:30 PM »

Never use nominal dimensions especially in a large project.  You will end up with Creep...m


Agreed.  it's better to draw everything accurately.  We don't round though.  I keep the accuracy high.  if a weird dimension shows up in a string.  We go looking for the problem and fix it.  Last thing we need is dimensional creep where everything is off by fractions of an inch in a scaled drawing by by feet during construction of a building that's hundreds of feet long.  (Some people get careless when using snaps, especially perpendicular)

Know of one drafter round off a dimension for an angle. He never told anyone about it.  (Didn't draw the angle correctly in the first place and didn't think it was important enough to fix it).  A year later in the field when they are trying to fit some structural steel beams and wondering why nothing lines up.....   

As a former boss used to say, the great thing about cad is that you can be accurately wrong. 

glee

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Re: Architectural Wall Dimensions
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2006, 07:17:10 PM »
  Sure she didn't call it a "ruler".

  *high school tech teacher* "There is only one ruler in this class and that's me!"
3rd grade teacher. You know she is having a bad day when she whips out the ruler.  You know you are about to have that bad day transfered to the entire class in a jiffy.  many a friend had their knuckles mashed trying desperately to recite the times table under extreme stress.  End of hijack.