Author Topic: Not associated families behaving differently  (Read 176 times)

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hudster

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Not associated families behaving differently
« on: June 09, 2017, 09:29:56 am »
I have 2 radiators, wall mounted.
The architect has deleted the wall they were mounted on and created a new one, don't ask me why, I've told him not to before, but he does it anyway.

Now the issue I'm having is that the radiators are behaving differently when they lose Association, one stays at the elevation I gave it, the other one drops to 240mm below the floor level, disconnecting the pipework, and deleting the associated pipe tags.

Anyone know why they would behave differently. they are the same family type so it's not as if any of them has different settings to the other one.
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Rob...

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Re: Not associated families behaving differently
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2017, 09:51:44 am »
More than likely it has to do with the hosting elements and not the family.
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hudster

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Re: Not associated families behaving differently
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2017, 10:08:30 am »
it's a real pain. I can't trust the architects model to display properly, I found one of my radiators which has moved 2 floors.
So I had to link his new one, with a new name, then go to my view template Revit links, turn off the old one and display the new one, so my stuff is still linked to old walls but displaying the new ones.

He doesn't know it, but we have a meeting next week with the whole design team, I have a list of almost 800 elements he's deleted, with all my hosted families losing their host.
I don't know why, but he deleted every ceiling in the project and replaced them with new ones, I'm not rehosting every light to the new ceilings, so I'm going to call him out in from of the client  :knuppel2:
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Rob...

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Re: Not associated families behaving differently
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2017, 10:29:49 am »
This is a common issue and you can avoid it by not using hosted families.

IMHO, blaming him for deleting your stuff is uncalled for. I don't think your stuff can get deleted unless you confirm it. The hosting element can get deleted without deleting your stuff, it just becomes unhosted. I could be wrong but before you go pointing fingers, maybe you should look at your workflow and figure out how to deal with architect's bad workflow. I think it is unfair to blame them for problems with your stuff. We are just starting out with Revit here and the electrical guys are already talking about using nonhosted families exclusively for this very reason.
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hudster

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Re: Not associated families behaving differently
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2017, 11:08:58 am »
I can't open my model without deleting the hosted elements due to the walls in his model.

Do you not host anything to the Architects model? how do you deal with minor changes to wall locations?
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Rob...

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Re: Not associated families behaving differently
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2017, 12:52:41 pm »
I can't open my model without deleting the hosted elements due to the walls in his model.

That doesn't sound right.

Do you not host anything to the Architects model?

I think we may stop using hosted families.

how do you deal with minor changes to wall locations?

Old school.

I'm all for automation but when that automation is dependent on user input that cannot be relied upon, it's time to drop the automation.
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hudster

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Re: Not associated families behaving differently
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2017, 02:48:41 pm »
I must admit I prefer to set up a reference plane for ceiling heights, and one for the underside of the slab, but our BIM manager loves hosted families, all of our families are hosted to either walls or ceilings.

I got the delete elements thing wrong, what I meant was it moves all my elements and makes me disconnect/delete the pipes that become too short when the family drops to the floor level, even though it has an offset of 240mm, it's a weird one.

This architect was warned by the main contractor to stop deleting things from his model that other services might be hosted to, so its not as if he can claim innocence, he seems to go out of his way to make things difficult for the services guys, Things like submitting a do not proceed warning when you could see 100mm of a 3M high AHU sticking above the parapet wall from about 500M away.
He's a bit of a primadonna about his design and is very inflexible to working as part of a team.
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Matt__W

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Re: Not associated families behaving differently
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2017, 07:07:24 am »
I can't open my model without deleting the hosted elements due to the walls in his model.

That doesn't sound right.
Maybe not, but it happens.



Do you not host anything to the Architects model?

I think we may stop using hosted families.
We stopped using hosted families years ago. Wouldn't go back. Not for MEPT work anyways. It's so much easier to create "typical" room layouts when all you have to do is copy/paste and not worry about losing associativity to host objects.

how do you deal with minor changes to wall locations?

Old school.

I'm all for automation but when that automation is dependent on user input that cannot be relied upon, it's time to drop the automation.
Someone still needs to review the changes, regardless of how big or small it may be.
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Rob...

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Re: Not associated families behaving differently
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2017, 07:21:59 am »
I can't open my model without deleting the hosted elements due to the walls in his model.

That doesn't sound right.
Maybe not, but it happens.

Are you saying that if a hosting element gets deleted in a linked model that there is no option but to delete the MEP element? I thought that they would be left in place without a host.
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Matt__W

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Re: Not associated families behaving differently
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2017, 07:34:51 am »
Not always, but I've seen it happen. I'm not 100% certain what the chain of events was leading up to the elements needing to be deleted in order to open the model.
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hudster

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Re: Not associated families behaving differently
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2017, 10:22:26 am »
Are you saying that if a hosting element gets deleted in a linked model that there is no option but to delete the MEP element? I thought that they would be left in place without a host.

Not quite, the hosting element has been deleted or re-used somewhere else, my element associated with that host is then moving to suit the changes, and the associated pipework has to be deleted as it's no longer connecting, too short etc.

So I have to delete it, but have no idea what's been deleted as I only have its ID which no longer exists
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