Author Topic: BIM libraries  (Read 1072 times)

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jonesy

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BIM libraries
« on: November 14, 2016, 03:05:06 am »
Hi all

Recently started a new job where I am using Revit full time.  I want to pick peoples brains about libraries/content.

In the past I have only used Revit in a structural work flow, but now I use it in the MEP world.... and I have swiftly come to the conclusion I will be relying on external content much more than the Autodesk supplied content.

So, where to look for metric content...

Is it worth keeping a local (to the company) library, or is it best to download the latest from the web for each job?

I'm sure I will have MANY more questions going forward, but this will get me running for now

Many thanks in advance for anyones input. 
T :)     
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

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Rob...

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2016, 06:52:04 am »
Absolutely, have a local library and periodically check for updated content. You will soon learn that updates don't happen very frequently. Some things have been the same and will remain that way for quite some time. For some equipment, it is often much faster to create your own using cut sheets, than it is to find something suitable, if you can.

On a side note, make sure to thoroughly vet families before inserting them into a project. There is still a lot of content that is just converted from AutoCAD which can cause havoc on a project.
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rvhwlc

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2016, 01:43:37 pm »
we do not use manuf. content... not good enough.. some stuff but not all.. we take default content and modify or create own stuff... works way better but takes more time and labor.

stock content gives you something to go by.. up to you to take it where you want to go.

John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2016, 07:38:46 pm »
Manuf content is bad and only a few companies use them (most input dimensions into custom content or maintain type libraries). To give you an idea as to what you can expect if you do use manuf content; my current employer uses manuf content and I spend hours at a time fixing schedules and hunting for equipment I just placed.

You can use quite a bit of the stock content to create your own content (some are/is really bad though).

Your first step is to decide how you want to use the content and what you want to do when the content changes (when the project changes from one manuf to another).  Assuming your into design build now.
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jonesy

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2016, 08:12:14 am »
Thanks for your input.

I've spent a bit of time looking at the NBS National BIM library, and by the looks of it, data has to be approved by "someone"

John, yes this company is design/build (another first for me, I only ever did high level work which went to tender for others to fully design)
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2016, 02:04:27 pm »
Are you going to be setting up their Revit?

Design/Build: You should defiantly steer clear of manufactures families and build families that allow you the flexibility you need. I was just at a design/build contractor and I used to draw an analogy and I called it the "Tyler vs Charlotte problem" (two manuf of pipe fittings). The analogy was about having to switch mid-project between two different manuf's parts/equipment. If you have to swap all pipe fittings to a different manuf --i.e. possibly end up with different inverts--you better have a good way (or a plan to do so) that costs the least (because there can be hundreds/thousands of pipe fittings in a model and just the act of switching can cost a lot not to mention the impact on the other trades).

...If you are going to be setting up the firms content, we should talk.
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Rob...

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2016, 06:36:03 am »
BTW, congrats on the new position!
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jonesy

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2016, 08:42:19 am »
Are you going to be setting up their Revit?

Design/Build: You should defiantly steer clear of manufactures families and build families that allow you the flexibility you need. I was just at a design/build contractor and I used to draw an analogy and I called it the "Tyler vs Charlotte problem" (two manuf of pipe fittings). The analogy was about having to switch mid-project between two different manuf's parts/equipment. If you have to swap all pipe fittings to a different manuf --i.e. possibly end up with different inverts--you better have a good way (or a plan to do so) that costs the least (because there can be hundreds/thousands of pipe fittings in a model and just the act of switching can cost a lot not to mention the impact on the other trades).

...If you are going to be setting up the firms content, we should talk.
Thanks for your input :)  So if a manufacturer has already been awarded the contract, is it "safe" to go with their content... or what other ways are there?

My first job is to work on a project and then from their it will be working alongside one of the other Reviteers here to work out whether we go for our own library or use a hosted one... or seek out what other alternatives there are.
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

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jonesy

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2016, 08:42:30 am »
BTW, congrats on the new position!
Thanks :)
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2016, 10:02:45 am »
Yes, but the problems in design build stem from the fact that often times when you start a manufacturer isn't awarded yet. ...I built my own families and built them to support type catalogs (I looked at several manuf cut-sheets for the same equipment and built my constraints so I could enter in dimensions for many different manufacturers). I then had two routes I could take in the case of a switch; I could load the other versions and just swap them as I needed to (this gave me the option to only switch the items that we felt were critical and couldn't be left up the field foreman). I could also just alter the type catalogs and "reload" and cross my fingers and hope items stayed connected. However, often times I/we'd design so that little dimension changes wouldn't matter and we'd just let CAD/BIM handle the swap when they took over to create the spool's.

A company owned library is the way to go (hands down). You have far more control over things like formulas, constrains, details, etc..

Basically, you have to imagine having to work with these aspects on a project like a hospital campus, or a 23 story hotel.
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jonesy

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2016, 10:43:51 am »
Thanks again John.
I guess I will have a much better understanding on which way to go and how to get there when I come up against issues on this current job!  Looks like I will have to get my family creation book out in the weeks and months to come...

It also looks like I might be monopolising this board as I pick everyones brains lol
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

www.travelthrutime

rvhwlc

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2016, 03:27:38 pm »
Yes, but the problems in design build stem from the fact that often times when you start a manufacturer isn't awarded yet. ...I built my own families and built them to support type catalogs (I looked at several manuf cut-sheets for the same equipment and built my constraints so I could enter in dimensions for many different manufacturers). I then had two routes I could take in the case of a switch; I could load the other versions and just swap them as I needed to (this gave me the option to only switch the items that we felt were critical and couldn't be left up the field foreman). I could also just alter the type catalogs and "reload" and cross my fingers and hope items stayed connected. However, often times I/we'd design so that little dimension changes wouldn't matter and we'd just let CAD/BIM handle the swap when they took over to create the spool's.

A company owned library is the way to go (hands down). You have far more control over things like formulas, constrains, details, etc..

Basically, you have to imagine having to work with these aspects on a project like a hospital campus, or a 23 story hotel.
i will back this all the way..

John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2016, 07:59:54 am »
Thanks again John.
I guess I will have a much better understanding on which way to go and how to get there when I come up against issues on this current job!  Looks like I will have to get my family creation book out in the weeks and months to come...

It also looks like I might be monopolising this board as I pick everyones brains lol
Ask away. ...You should know that I also, at one time, started to create my own company and I built some "template" families to get a library started from (a few hundred very clean families one could apply their own company shared parameters to).

i will back this all the way..

Heh! Sadly, most people/companies do too. I typically quickly attain the title of "expert/genius/head-dummy" (which I hate). Then the work slows down or the standards are applied and I get swiftly dropped on my ear.  I do not understand why people/companies do not invest more into what they are selling (their infrastructure/plans/engineering)! Infrastructure/practices/procedures falls into the 1% of company expenses but have the biggest impact --e.g. purchase crap computers/network you will be feeling the effects soon-.
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hudster

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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2016, 11:22:01 am »
late to the show again, but here's my two pennies worth.

We never ever ever ever ever....  ever ever use manufacturers families. There are a few reasons for this.
1. Scheduling, its very rare that you won't have to re-work the parameters in a manufacturers file so they suit your needs. and typically if you change a parameter, the model goes to pot as they are often linked to each other.
2. LOD the majority of manufactures families are way to complex for what a typical MEP layout will ever need, resulting in massive models and slow loading/rendering etc, Do you really need to see the threads on that bolt for a LOD 200 model?
3. This was the most important one for us. Under the UK tendering rules we can't be seen to be favouring a specific manufacturer, and our Directors felt that by using a manufacturers family we could be seen to be giving them a recommendation, with most of our work being Government work we need to be seen to be impartial.
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Re: BIM libraries
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2016, 08:24:24 am »
The LOD (Level of Detail) is a very important point. At an early phase of the project, we and others only need to know that its a door and how wide is it. Later on you can add fire rating and acoustic performance. Later still finishes etc can be added.
We are Architects and on the whole we work with contractors as part of a team developing the design, in our case schools.
At an early point of design we will be using generic families from NBS or our own developed elements, typically doors, windows, walls etc. These with the correct parameters will inform the various schedules and develop the specification, (generated out of the Revit Model).
As we progress through the design phase additional detail will be added as decisions are made, This is the point that manufacturers families will, if appropriate will be added. The points made above are important though, too much manufacturers information  is of poor quality, so saying that hosted on NBS BIM Library and Bimstore are usually pretty good.
The manufacturers families will have the correct unicode and NBS references built in which in turn will directly inform the specification. This is BIM at work, Revit and Create, (the specification tool) form two components of the common data. environment.
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