Topic: Civil 3D | Where Do You Label What?

[BlackBox]

2. That is to bad. Once upon a time (ACAD 14 days) I would have done the same thing. Tell your coworkers to leave the dark side. LOL

I wish!

I purchased my Surveyor (and VP of the firm) a new x64 workstation +/- 2 years ago, and he still RDP into his old WinXPx86 workstation to work in AutoCAD 2000 + Eagle Point every day.


The root of my issue, is... and I'm trying very hard to NOT vent personal frustrations here... They're hourly, and I'm salary. Our motivation/incentivization is diametrically opposed.

I've been trying to work their way for the past couple of years, and I'm not okay with good enough... Particularly when it means more hours that I have to work (I'm salary)... hundreds of wasted hours last year, that I am no longer willing to volunteer, frankly.

I'm in the process of starting a new project now - actually, I'm taking their project with the annotation vomit in the base, and completely changing the layout per client request - this project will be my first effort to go back to labeling within the sheet again.

... Now I just need to 'beat' my manhour estimate for completed plans.

[MSTG007]

Wow. I am sorry to hear about your co-workers. Just hearing everything you and mark talked about. It makes sense. Clean Base 2D Files for Design. We create our own DREFs with Pipe Networks, Surfaces, etc. We can do whatever we want to put in those DREF.dwgs. But we do not xref any DREFs into sheet files.

I do like the ease of placing text that needs to be shown up in all files in the base. If your in a crunch you can edit that one file and reflect upon the set. We also use a heck of a lot of XREFs in our sheet files in PaperSpace. We have a lot of stuff which shows the same on other sheets, we just create an xref for. Legends Benchmarks. That way if we need to slide the over or move them we can like a block.

It sure is interesting how other people do this. There is really not a great documentation on how to properly set these things up (That I can find). But its nice to know, that we are kinda coming up with a common understanding for this.

[Jeff_M]

...not a great documentation on how to properly set these things up...

Probably because "properly" is defined differently by so many people. I think the majority here have a similar line of thinking, but I personally know other people who would balk at doing things as I do.

One example: an engineering firm we've worked with for years (and I worked for 30 years ago when we were all just starting out with Acad)  STILL inserts their title blocks(with dumb text) in model space, Explodes the block, then edits the text as needed for the job/sheet/author/etc. No paper space, no attributes, no nothing but plain exasperation on my part when I need to help out on one of their projects. (OK, I know, that's not C3D related, especially since they are still using LDD, but you get the idea.) BTW, that is the workflow we HAD to use way back when...there was no paper space, nor attributes, nor mtext, nor...a lot of things.

[BlackBox]

...not a great documentation on how to properly set these things up...

Probably because "properly" is defined differently by so many people. I think the majority here have a similar line of thinking, but I personally know other people who would balk at doing things as I do.

One example: an engineering firm we've worked with for years (and I worked for 30 years ago when we were all just starting out with Acad)  STILL inserts their title blocks(with dumb text) in model space, Explodes the block, then edits the text as needed for the job/sheet/author/etc. No paper space, no attributes, no nothing but plain exasperation on my part when I need to help out on one of their projects. (OK, I know, that's not C3D related, especially since they are still using LDD, but you get the idea.) BTW, that is the workflow we HAD to use way back when...there was no paper space, nor attributes, nor mtext, nor...a lot of things.

FWIW -

When I was hired on 2+ years ago, it was because the owner had purchased Civil 3D for the designers here (3 back then), and they were still using Land Desktop 2004 without the Land component being installed (I know!)... Despite the fact that they did use paper space for their title blocks, they actually scaled the title block UP, so that the Viewport would be scaled 1:1 (meaning, one sheet is at 1"=200', and another is 1"=40', etc.). 

I was finally able to convince two of the designers to NOT scale the title block (the third promptly quit), and instead use the inherent Properties of the Viewport to 'scale' each sheet... But they love their annotation vomit filled drawings more than a fat kid loves cake.

[cadtag]

.. They're hourly, and I'm salary. Our motivation/incentivization is diametrically opposed.
...

That sounds like a fundamental problem that is in need of addressing.  Maybe invest a bit of thought in how to provide a meaningful positive benefit to doing things more efficiently.  Dunno about your particular people, but experience over the last x-many decades has shown me that most drafties  really do want to be effective and have a fair amount of pride in their product.  Sometimes too much - in that they (we) get emotionally invested in doing things our way,

[nobody]

Now, I only label the pipe network in Profile View (to be XREFed), and with the XREF in the sheet drawing, I can then label the XREF pipe network as needed.

Do you have one drawing with a profile view / your utility design and xref that into cut sheets, then label the structures / pipes in profile view in the individual sheets themselves?

Or do you create profile views in each individual cut sheet and dref everything you need to see in it? 

Only ask because the system I am currently using seems slow. Everything is labeled in a single profile drawing and xref'd into my cut sheets. Takes a while to open some drawings (5 minutes sometimes)...  Looking to understand different ways to try them.

[BlackBox]

... Maybe invest a bit of thought in how to provide a meaningful positive benefit to doing things more efficiently.

That is the very intent behind my starting this pole; thanks, Cadtag.

Cheers

[BlackBox]

Now, I only label the pipe network in Profile View (to be XREFed), and with the XREF in the sheet drawing, I can then label the XREF pipe network as needed.

Do you have one drawing with a profile view / your utility design and xref that into cut sheets, then label the structures / pipes in profile view in the individual sheets themselves?

Or do you create profile views in each individual cut sheet and dref everything you need to see in it?

Sorry - my earlier post wasn't clear enough.

I have one or more Profile drawings, which contain all of the Profile Views, Profile Labels (C3D Labels, MLeaders, etc), and the pipe networks (in Plan, no Labels; or if labeled, for design info on no-plot layer).

I XREF that Profile drawing, and my base drawings, and Label plan view's XREFed pipes, etc. I XCLIP everything but the Profile drawing currently.

I've been wanting to try DREF pipe networks into plan, and XCLIP everything, but I still dislike having duplicate DREFs where possible, as I feel that they slow down the drawings more than a single DREF of the entire network, etc.

Aerial imagery underplays are the single largest time consumer; I added a simple LISP Reactor to unload those XREFs from design models on CLOSE, which has greatly expedited drawing open - down from 2-3 minutes to 30+ seconds (even with full network DREFs etc).


Cheers

[MSTG007]

Is it right to xref 3D data in a drawing that has DREFs in it? Even if it might have duplicate data in it? I think of proposed surfaces and pipe networks.

[BlackBox]

Not sure that I understand your question; please clarify.

[MSTG007]

Sorry Late night last night.

Question is if you have a DWG that has a Pipe Network in it with a Data Shortcut / Referenced Surface into it. Then Xref that file into a sheet file, and then RE-DATA REF the Pipe Network and Surface into the same sheet file "To Cut Plan and Profiles".?

I have seen this here at our office a few times. Personally I think its bad practice, but just curious what you guys think...

[BlackBox]

Sorry Late night last night.

Question is if you have a DWG that has a Pipe Network in it with a Data Shortcut / Referenced Surface into it. Then Xref that file into a sheet file, and then RE-DATA REF the Pipe Network and Surface into the same sheet file "To Cut Plan and Profiles".?

I have seen this here at our office a few times. Personally I think its bad practice, but just curious what you guys think...

No worries; thankfully I've not seen that before.

My Profile drawing has the Surface, Alignment, Pipe Network(s) (not as DREF, actually IN this drawing), and Profile Views for the given Alignment. I layout the Pipe Networks in plan, and draw/label in Profile View, so that the Profile Views are 'complete'.

If I DREF the Pipe Network(s) into this drawing, then I can only draw/label them in Profile View, and cannot 'edit' their layout/elevations for conflicts... Which means that I end up needing a second drawing with all of the same things in it, just so I can do all of the plan & profile design, just to DREF elsewhere, which doesn't make any sense to me. For this reason, I consolidate the C3D Objects into the drawing(s) where I can.


My 'master' plan drawing does NOT have the Pipe Networks DREF. When I need them for design changes, I XREF the Profile drawing as underlay.

In the 'cut sheets', I XREF the master plan, and profile drawings - ONE instance of each Pipe Network, and ONE instance of the Surface - since the Profile drawing is already 'complete', I then merely need to label the plan view, and done.


If someone else knows a more efficient way to work, please jump in.


Cheers

[mjfarrell]

maybe we need a Venn Diagram or Flow Chart to make it clear to all....bust out your best Visio

[alanjt]

Sorry Late night last night.

Question is if you have a DWG that has a Pipe Network in it with a Data Shortcut / Referenced Surface into it. Then Xref that file into a sheet file, and then RE-DATA REF the Pipe Network and Surface into the same sheet file "To Cut Plan and Profiles".?

I have seen this here at our office a few times. Personally I think its bad practice, but just curious what you guys think...

A problem I've encountered with having a the pipe network in the xref (initially would put in base file) and then dref'd in to cut profiles is the profile in my profile views will disappear and have to be added to the profile view every time I open the drawing.
I try and dref the pipe network as little as possible - styles don't update resulting in the same structure being edited after dref and appearing different in each file.
I wouldn't even mind xrefing the pipe network, and just having my profiles cut in the same file, except the pipe file needs the surface dref in, but also has to be dref into the sheet file for labeling, and then the surface is the the sheet file as part of the pipe xref and a dref.

[MSTG007]

I feel your pain. Lol. That's why I asked that question in a sense.