Topic: We're Not Gonna Take It

[Keith™]

Perceived value is huge.
A company can have the best product among all producers of that particular product, but if the perceived value isn't there users will go elsewhere for their needs.

Users typically view software as a purchased product. They pay a certain amount of money once for the rights to use the software forever. With the subscription model, users get the ability to use the software for a specific period of time. It would be more appropriate to call it renting or leasing. When companies view it in that aspect, renting doesn't instill the permanence and stability that they expect, especially for a product that is perceived as a necessary evil.

One thing they are doing is pricing themselves out of small companies and individual shops. If I didn't have a perpetual license already, you can bet I'd be using a different product.

[JohnK]

MJ, you still haven't addressed the most important aspect: what's the motivation for Autodesk to fix anything. The user base isn't going anywhere and if anything I will only grow so one would need to make a "valid" argument for them to invest a lot of money into something with very little--to zero--return (in the current situation).

Pro tip: there are three reasons why someone does anything.
1. For me.
2. For us.
3. For the greater good.

Actually addressing weakness, defects, or deficiencies in their product would benefit them, as they would have a user base
so satisfied with their product or service that they would never look for alternatives to what they offer.
Something like that is far cheaper than needing to mobilize sales, and marketing efforts to retain or acquire additional users.

Similarly, Harley Davidson, facing more than 3 quarters of negative growth despite global brand recognition, why?
All analyst point to perceived value of the product driving customers to shop other brands.  And the why is that
while they do make motorcycles, they do not seem to offer value and performance users (riders) are after, and they
have yet to 'fix' their 'broken' product, and they will continue to hemorrhage customers until they do.

Granted there is a difference between a software company, and one that makes motorcycles, however not much is different about their customers.

Some point out that the 'typical' users doesn't care, however their employers, those that write the checks do.
It''s a reason we have basically dropped a product that worked, yet cost money every year for an open source solution for some services we provide.
It had little to do with performance, and much to do with perceived value of what the product did for us.

Ha! Yeah, I wish it were so (I really do) but, in all honesty, Autodesk will never have a good enough reason to fix things (they are on the profit train, not the benevolence train). They are quite happy with "it works good enough" (and apparently, so is most of the market). I would personally like to use alternatives but I know that will never happen. The bosses, of most firms, like to think they have a level playing field in the job market (they don't want to have to say "DWG like" or "DWG (version)" in proposals/contracts). This is why Autodesk will always have a lion's share of the market.

[Keith™]

MJ, you still haven't addressed the most important aspect: what's the motivation for Autodesk to fix anything. The user base isn't going anywhere and if anything I will only grow so one would need to make a "valid" argument for them to invest a lot of money into something with very little--to zero--return (in the current situation).

Pro tip: there are three is one reasons why someone does anything.
1. For me.
2. For us.
3. For the greater good.

Fixed that for you ...

I have always believed that people are inherently self-centered and everything we do is motivated by some sort of ROI. i.e. "what do I get out of it"

I've only ever heard of a few things that someone might do that I don't see the motivation behind it, but if it isn't for money, respect or recognition, it is usually for the warm fuzzies that you get when you self-aggrandize.

Of course, Keith. But people can get `warm fuzzies' by doing things for any of the reasons I mentioned above (not just doing things for themselves); I was speaking about motivations to do things not reasons why (let's not play the semantics game). I was also being sarcastic; of course, Autodesk will only do something that they (the corp) will benefit from.

No semantics ... but you did say reasons

Yes, Autodesk does things only because it helps them in some way, you can bet that even a net neutral action by a company such as Autodesk is perceived as being beneficial in the long game even if we can't see it now.

People are no different.

[JohnK]

<snip>
People are no different.

I remember creating a discussion about this topic called "people are greedy" (or something like that) and getting an awful lot of flack for pointing out that very same thing. And, just so you know, I was also a Psych major and Maslow's hierarchy and the like really fascinated me for quite some time. ...we can have *this* discussion later if you really want (but it will get quite heated, I'm sure so we'll probably want to have it in a more private forum).

[Keith™]

<snip>
People are no different.

I remember creating a discussion about this topic called "people are greedy" (or something like that) and getting an awful lot of flack for pointing out that very same thing. And, just so you know, I was also a Psych major and Maslow's hierarchy and the like really fascinated me for quite some time. ...we can have *this* discussion later if you really want (but it will get quite heated, I'm sure so we'll probably want to have it in a more private forum).

Sounds like fun!

[mjfarrell]

<snip>
People are no different.

I remember creating a discussion about this topic called "people are greedy" (or something like that) and getting an awful lot of flack for pointing out that very same thing. And, just so you know, I was also a Psych major and Maslow's hierarchy and the like really fascinated me for quite some time. ...we can have *this* discussion later if you really want (but it will get quite heated, I'm sure so we'll probably want to have it in a more private forum).

Sounds like fun!

sounds like swimming in a pool filled with Cholla Cacti!

[Jeff H]

Okay guys let dig deep and give this a try.
Boss man asked for reasons to keep subscription and can anyone give reasons why without arguing against it. We all know why people think it's bad let's just go over the good reasons to.

[Krushert]

Okay guys let dig deep and give this a try.
Boss man asked for reasons to keep subscription and can anyone give reasons why without arguing against it. We all know why people think it's bad let's just go over the good reasons to.

Ohh no you didn't. 
I think it would be easier to build a ship with warp speed.

[mjfarrell]

Okay guys let dig deep and give this a try.
Boss man asked for reasons to keep subscription and can anyone give reasons why without arguing against it. We all know why people think it's bad let's just go over the good reasons to.

Top Good Reason:

It's like seeing a hooker, at least you know how much it's going to cost.

[ronjonp]

Not having to mess with converting to new file formats? We had an in house application that only ran on AutoCAD 2009 .. I spent A LOT of time converting files from clients to that version.

[JohnK]

And expanding on ronjonp's example; being able to accept all contracts with no problems (don't have to worry about if contract specifies version not in house).

I think dgorsman gave a good(ish) example about the upgrade to newer computers/os' (post #2).

[Keith™]

According to Autodesk, some tech support comes with subscription.

[mjfarrell]

According to Autodesk, some tech support comes with subscription.

Yeah, so good all online support forums are redundant, right?

[cadtag]

#1 reason to stay on subscription.  Access to current version software.  whether it's a good reason or not will depend on your situation,  if you primarily work in a  non-collaborative space (eg all work is done in-house, from conceptual to final) and the perpetual use license you have is adequate, then it's not a measurable benefit.

If you work as a prime, with subs at varying upograde levels contributing to the final product, the having the latest version can ensure that you can use their material with minimal issues.  If you're typically working as a sub, the current version will cause problems when the prime or other team members are not using that same latest-n-greatest.

#2 reason, access to bonus/add-ons from Autodesk that are released as sub-only.  Value is probably marginal, but something may (or may not) po[p up that way that would improve your operation.

#3 -- i don't think there are any others....

[dgorsman]

According to Autodesk, some tech support comes with subscription.

Correct.  It always gets answers here, even if its to confirm that there is a problem and there isn't an immediate solution.