Author Topic: We're Not Gonna Take It  (Read 27297 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rob...

  • King Gator
  • Posts: 3824
  • Take a little time to stop and smell the roses.
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2016, 05:03:15 PM »
Of course, and thank you for doing that.
CAD Tech

dgorsman

  • Water Moccasin
  • Posts: 2437
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2016, 05:03:36 PM »
Watch it Rob... That last comment (sarcasm) treads on thin ice as far as I'm concerned and I'm sick of the fighting (I don't want to deal with that crap again).

Here's something a little more palatable: how do we measure those who are *not* speaking out?  There could be many who don't care; there could be very few who really like the new system.  Without a measuring stick, comparisons won't (stick).
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.

try {GreatPower;}
   catch (notResponsible)
      {NextTime(PlanAhead);}
   finally
      {MasterBasics;}

mjfarrell

  • Seagull
  • Posts: 14444
  • Every Student their own Lesson
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2016, 05:15:12 PM »
Watch it Rob... That last comment (sarcasm) treads on thin ice as far as I'm concerned and I'm sick of the fighting (I don't want to deal with that crap again).

Here's something a little more palatable: how do we measure those who are *not* speaking out?  There could be many who don't care; there could be very few who really like the new system.  Without a measuring stick, comparisons won't (stick).

They may not be saying much or anything, as this small example shows, those that question often face a chorus of shouts of negativity.
Not an environment that encourages open, honest discourse on any subject at any level.
And it would be equally hard to tell if those that say nothing, are doing so because they are not decision makers, have no influence on those that are, or otherwise
feel removed from the affects of such things.  For example a NON  Adobe user would have no idea or even care anything about Adobe's licensing strategy.

This thing is a bit like a Schroedinger's Cat experiment, the only way to know for sure is to open the box, and kill the cat.

Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

Jeff H

  • Needs a day job
  • Posts: 6150
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2016, 05:57:16 PM »
In my office there are 8 other people who use AutoCAD at least half a day or more, and never learn anything, care to learn about the product, members of any cad forum. etc.....

80% of paying customers never will get in discussion and do not care.

JohnK

  • Administrator
  • Seagull
  • Posts: 10642
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2016, 06:35:07 PM »
MJ, you still haven't addressed the most important aspect: what's the motivation for Autodesk to fix anything. The user base isn't going anywhere and if anything I will only grow so one would need to make a "valid" argument for them to invest a lot of money into something with very little--to zero--return (in the current situation).

Pro tip: there are three reasons why someone does anything.
1. For me.
2. For us.
3. For the greater good.
TheSwamp.org (serving the CAD community since 2003)
Member location map - Add yourself

Donate to TheSwamp.org

BlackBox

  • King Gator
  • Posts: 3770
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2016, 06:40:43 PM »
...

3. For the greater good.[/i]

[Edit] - Added quote for context.



#HotFuzz
"How we think determines what we do, and what we do determines what we get."

Dinosaur

  • Guest
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2016, 08:56:17 PM »
Just to remind ALL y'all, this particular area in TheSwamp is open for viewing to anyone with an internet connection, so a bit of discretion in your posts, responses and attachments, while in here especially, would be in order ... please take a few seconds  prior to hitting the post button to review your post.

Keith™

  • Villiage Idiot
  • Seagull
  • Posts: 16899
  • Superior Stupidity at its best
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2016, 11:15:34 PM »
It doesn't take much searching to see, that my opinion and reasons are echoed by many.
It would be interesting to see the topic debated, and not the individual offering that opinion.

Or as they say, "play the ball, not the player".

We will see who or what starts eating at their market share in a short time, and how or if they respond
to a customer base willing too use things like Bricscad, or Blender, or FreeCad.

*really big sigh* I'm sorry but you just don't seem to be understanding the situation.
LOL

Quote
We will see who or what starts eating at their market share in a short time
Adobe has the same model and they don't seem to be losing any market share.


The Adobe market is considerably different than the Autodesk market.

... and just like Autodesk, there are competing software packages available that create PDF content much like there are competing software packages that create drawings.

The biggest difference is that the end product for Adobe is the electronic file, for Autodesk the end product is usually the printed copy of the document.

If I'm providing a PDF to a client, I might be convinced that the originators of the PDF format are the best bet when choosing software to create the document, but if I am providing a set of plans printed on ARCH-D, I might just look for any software that happens to produce the desired output, that being a printed copy, after all it will be OCE, HP, KIP or some other printer manufacturer that is actually producing the end product.
Proud provider of opinion and arrogance since November 22, 2003 at 09:35:31 am
CadJockey Militia Field Marshal

Find me on https://parler.com @kblackie

Keith™

  • Villiage Idiot
  • Seagull
  • Posts: 16899
  • Superior Stupidity at its best
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2016, 11:23:41 PM »
MJ, you still haven't addressed the most important aspect: what's the motivation for Autodesk to fix anything. The user base isn't going anywhere and if anything I will only grow so one would need to make a "valid" argument for them to invest a lot of money into something with very little--to zero--return (in the current situation).

Pro tip: there are three is one reasons why someone does anything.
1. For me.
2. For us.
3. For the greater good.


Fixed that for you ...

I have always believed that people are inherently self-centered and everything we do is motivated by some sort of ROI. i.e. "what do I get out of it"

I've only ever heard of a few things that someone might do that I don't see the motivation behind it, but if it isn't for money, respect or recognition, it is usually for the warm fuzzies that you get when you self-aggrandize.
Proud provider of opinion and arrogance since November 22, 2003 at 09:35:31 am
CadJockey Militia Field Marshal

Find me on https://parler.com @kblackie

Mark

  • Custom Title
  • Seagull
  • Posts: 28762
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2016, 07:17:50 AM »
It doesn't take much searching to see, that my opinion and reasons are echoed by many.
It would be interesting to see the topic debated, and not the individual offering that opinion.

Or as they say, "play the ball, not the player".

We will see who or what starts eating at their market share in a short time, and how or if they respond
to a customer base willing too use things like Bricscad, or Blender, or FreeCad.

*really big sigh* I'm sorry but you just don't seem to be understanding the situation.
LOL

Quote
We will see who or what starts eating at their market share in a short time
Adobe has the same model and they don't seem to be losing any market share.


The Adobe market is considerably different than the Autodesk market.
How so? They are so much more than just Acrobat.
https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/catalog/desktop.html?promoid=KOVFF
TheSwamp.org  (serving the CAD community since 2003)

Mark

  • Custom Title
  • Seagull
  • Posts: 28762
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2016, 07:27:20 AM »
Quote
Paid membership continues to accelerate – adding a record 833,000 new subscribers in the past quarter (almost 65,000 new customers each week) – which means that total number of subscribers has now surpassed 6.1 million since the CC product line replaced Creative Suite in June 2013.
http://prodesigntools.com/creative-cloud-one-million-paid-members.html
TheSwamp.org  (serving the CAD community since 2003)

Mark

  • Custom Title
  • Seagull
  • Posts: 28762
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2016, 07:36:14 AM »
Quote
Autodesk's large customer base (at 85% market share more than 8 million AutoCAD users) is itself a competitive advantage.
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Autodesk_(ADSK)
TheSwamp.org  (serving the CAD community since 2003)

MexicanCustard

  • Swamp Rat
  • Posts: 705
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2016, 08:11:14 AM »
In my office there are 8 other people who use AutoCAD at least half a day or more, and never learn anything, care to learn about the product, members of any cad forum. etc.....

80% of paying customers never will get in discussion and do not care.

I can second this idea. Of the 14 people in my office who use AutoCAD, I'm not one of them, me the developer is the only one who participates in any type of Autodesk community.  Typical users don't care.
Revit 2019, AMEP 2019 64bit Win 10

mjfarrell

  • Seagull
  • Posts: 14444
  • Every Student their own Lesson
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2016, 08:35:51 AM »
MJ, you still haven't addressed the most important aspect: what's the motivation for Autodesk to fix anything. The user base isn't going anywhere and if anything I will only grow so one would need to make a "valid" argument for them to invest a lot of money into something with very little--to zero--return (in the current situation).

Pro tip: there are three reasons why someone does anything.
1. For me.
2. For us.
3. For the greater good.


Actually addressing weakness, defects, or deficiencies in their product would benefit them, as they would have a user base
so satisfied with their product or service that they would never look for alternatives to what they offer.
Something like that is far cheaper than needing to mobilize sales, and marketing efforts to retain or acquire additional users.

Similarly, Harley Davidson, facing more than 3 quarters of negative growth despite global brand recognition, why?
All analyst point to perceived value of the product driving customers to shop other brands.  And the why is that
while they do make motorcycles, they do not seem to offer value and performance users (riders) are after, and they
have yet to 'fix' their 'broken' product, and they will continue to hemorrhage customers until they do.

Granted there is a difference between a software company, and one that makes motorcycles, however not much is different about their customers.

Some point out that the 'typical' users doesn't care, however their employers, those that write the checks do.
It''s a reason we have basically dropped a product that worked, yet cost money every year for an open source solution for some services we provide.
It had little to do with performance, and much to do with perceived value of what the product did for us.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

JohnK

  • Administrator
  • Seagull
  • Posts: 10642
Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2016, 09:09:14 AM »
MJ, you still haven't addressed the most important aspect: what's the motivation for Autodesk to fix anything. The user base isn't going anywhere and if anything I will only grow so one would need to make a "valid" argument for them to invest a lot of money into something with very little--to zero--return (in the current situation).

Pro tip: there are three is one reasons why someone does anything.
1. For me.
2. For us.
3. For the greater good.


Fixed that for you ...

I have always believed that people are inherently self-centered and everything we do is motivated by some sort of ROI. i.e. "what do I get out of it"

I've only ever heard of a few things that someone might do that I don't see the motivation behind it, but if it isn't for money, respect or recognition, it is usually for the warm fuzzies that you get when you self-aggrandize.

Of course, Keith. But people can get `warm fuzzies' by doing things for any of the reasons I mentioned above (not just doing things for themselves); I was speaking about motivations to do things not reasons why (let's not play the semantics game). I was also being sarcastic; of course, Autodesk will only do something that they (the corp) will benefit from.
TheSwamp.org (serving the CAD community since 2003)
Member location map - Add yourself

Donate to TheSwamp.org