Author Topic: We're Not Gonna Take It  (Read 4338 times)

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mjfarrell

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2016, 09:03:25 am »
And that is just about the year I started WARNING people about the consequences of 'subscription' no matter what phrase autodesk was using at the time.
I knew then, the return for our 'investment' would be diminished, and their (Autodesk) responsiveness to what we really wanted or needed as well
as actual product development would suffer, due to the decoupling of sales to actual product capability as a result of 'locking' the customers in to each
successive release through this model.
Your argument is old now. Autodesk is moving forward. Please try and keep up.

Quote
1.5 Why is Autodesk discontinuing some perpetual licenses?
With this change, Autodesk is continuing its transition to subscription-based products, which offer customers a lower entry price, greater choice of tools, and the ability to pay-as-you-go. With its shift away from selling perpetual rights to use a specific version of software, Autodesk plans to continually innovate and improve its Desktop Subscription, Cloud and “network subscription” products & services, more tightly integrate them with cloud services, allow access from multiple devices at any time, make them easier to deploy and manage, and reduce file compatibility issues.


Quote
2.1 What is Desktop Subscription? Does Desktop Subscription use the cloud to store applications and data?
Desktop Subscription gives you access to Autodesk software—the same full version as with a perpetual license—but with a flexible, pay-as-you-go approach for a software budget that’s easier to manage. The desktop software application delivered through Desktop Subscription, as well as associated user data, continue to be stored on a local machine.

Their model and or name for this model may have changed; the argument against remains equally valid.

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rkmcswain

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2016, 09:09:04 am »
Quote from: mjfarrell
perhaps they should hire more smart people and pay them a lot of money to actually improve the product offering year on year?

I totally agree. I would love to see the massive list of bugs fixed and (real) new features added. But, you have to remember this:

"The basic premise which you must keep in mind is that the
interests of the shareholders supersede everything else."
  -sboon (Autodesk Forums)

mjfarrell

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2016, 09:09:29 am »
^^
interesting way of saying you are a insignificant bug
   :tongue2:

whereas I may be insignificant to autodesk, the business decision regarding reduced value for the price of the product is not unique to me
as evidence by events which sparked this topic of discussion.

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Michael Farrell
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Mark

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2016, 09:09:34 am »
Their model and or name for this model may have changed; the argument against remains equally valid.
How so? IMO, and I wish someone from Autodesk would pipe-in here, their model is completely different.

Come on Michael ..... lets go ...... we're not in 2001 anymore. :-)
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mjfarrell

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2016, 09:10:47 am »
Quote from: mjfarrell
perhaps they should hire more smart people and pay them a lot of money to actually improve the product offering year on year?

I totally agree. I would love to see the massive list of bugs fixed and (real) new features added. But, you have to remember this:

"The basic premise which you must keep in mind is that the
interests of the shareholders supersede everything else."
  -sboon (Autodesk Forums)
that is the root of my premise as well, shareholders do not products buy, and those of us that do are not pleased
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mjfarrell

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2016, 09:13:54 am »
Their model and or name for this model may have changed; the argument against remains equally valid.
How so? IMO, and I wish someone from Autodesk would pipe-in here, their model is completely different.

Come on Michael ..... lets go ...... we're not in 2001 anymore. :-)
no, it's still a 'subscription' , and it still disconnects them from being responsive to customer needs
however I guess if they are counting on people merely 'renting' a product as if it were a motel room,
then of course quality or enhancements are not their primary concern anymore.
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dgorsman

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2016, 10:16:59 am »
Quote from: mjfarrell
perhaps they should hire more smart people and pay them a lot of money to actually improve the product offering year on year?

I totally agree. I would love to see the massive list of bugs fixed and (real) new features added. But, you have to remember this:

"The basic premise which you must keep in mind is that the
interests of the shareholders supersede everything else."
  -sboon (Autodesk Forums)

Plus, one persons "great new feature" is another's "useless waste of my money"; one persons useful feature is another's bug (*cough*linetypes*cough).  Its absolutely essential for all to realize that they aren't the only ones using the program, nor is their work process the latest, greatest, and only True Path.
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.

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Jeff H

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2016, 10:32:18 am »
90% of Autodesk customers DO NOT CARE about bugs or even know how find them probably.
Autodesk is catering to the majority of customers who just want new shiny things.

mjfarrell

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2016, 10:37:14 am »
Quote from: mjfarrell
perhaps they should hire more smart people and pay them a lot of money to actually improve the product offering year on year?

I totally agree. I would love to see the massive list of bugs fixed and (real) new features added. But, you have to remember this:

"The basic premise which you must keep in mind is that the
interests of the shareholders supersede everything else."
  -sboon (Autodesk Forums)

Plus, one persons "great new feature" is another's "useless waste of my money"; one persons useful feature is another's bug (*cough*linetypes*cough).  Its absolutely essential for all to realize that they aren't the only ones using the program, nor is their work process the latest, greatest, and only True Path.
yeah, except when it (the bug, or broken feature) is acknowledged by all users with any knowledge at all that the 'bug' or feature is in fact 'broken'in such cases
the company producing said software should be far more responsive to removing said bugs and or providing actual functionality that the broken feature was claimed to perform.

Case in point ask a few Civil 3d users what really doesn't 'work' and or what is missing, it wont take many to get a consensus.
And to be clear, not talking about any form of 'wish list', just stuff that really should be fixed.
And I'm pretty sure one could do the same for most if not all of autodesk's' offerings.

Further when ones work flow, is more like a drunken country line dance due to the functioning or lack thereof, the software is at fault not your processes. IMO

And not to digress too far, I don't know of anyone that sees, linetypes as a bug, other than perhaps not to generate their pattern relative to the view rather than direction the stupid line was drawn in.  If that is the issue, yes it should have been 'fixed' like 15 years ago.
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Rob...

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2016, 10:37:30 am »
I like shiny bugs.

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Rob...

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2016, 10:41:37 am »
I don't know of anyone that sees, linetypes as a bug

IMHO, they were not designed properly from day one. The change to a default LTScale of .5 pretty much says that they admit that they made them all too big.
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mjfarrell

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2016, 11:03:27 am »
I don't know of anyone that sees, linetypes as a bug

IMHO, they were not designed properly from day one. The change to a default LTScale of .5 pretty much says that they admit that they made them all too big.

yeah...and isn't in nice that autodesk basically ignored, or denied there was an issue for so long, only to basically slap a very small band-aid on it, and carry on ignoring an actual fix to the issue?

rhetorical of course
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Michael Farrell
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2016, 12:40:38 pm »
<snip> not designed properly from day one. <snip>
<snip> only to basically slap a very small band-aid on it <snip>

Funny story, I got an opportunity to meet one of the original authors of AutoCAD once. Apparently most stuff was but was quickly redesigned to meet deadlines. This caused a ripple which essentially tied their hands into not ever being able to fix things without a serious overhaul (-e.g. apparently annotative text was "the plan from the start" and now we just have a kludge of a system).
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mjfarrell

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2016, 12:50:39 pm »
<snip> not designed properly from day one. <snip>
<snip> only to basically slap a very small band-aid on it <snip>

Funny story, I got an opportunity to meet one of the original authors of AutoCAD once. Apparently most stuff was but was quickly redesigned to meet deadlines. This caused a ripple which essentially tied their hands into not ever being able to fix things without a serious overhaul (-e.g. apparently annotative text was "the plan from the start" and now we just have a kludge of a system).
And precisely why they would be best served to STOP this madness of ANNUAL release cycle.
As more and more crap programming gets piled on top of crap programming.
They would really do well to pick one or two things customers really want added, and FIX everything else before the next release, even IF that means the next version
doesn't come out per calendar year.  I think most of us would be far happier getting a product that works without surprises, and surprises us with fixes to longstanding issues.
Something like that might restore peoples loyalty to them.  As opposed to the current model breeding animosity and dissatisfaction.
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Keith™

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Re: We're Not Gonna Take It
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2016, 01:28:18 pm »
Regardless of what Autodesk may be saying, the reason for going to a subscription based licensing model is to build a client base that is dependent upon them for their software needs. Its quite smart from a business perspective. The BS statement about making it less costly for folks to get into the software is just spin designed to put a nice face on the stick they are shoving up your ass.

Its all about money .. a subscription model is a great way to increase revenues for the developer, provided it is priced correctly.

Every company I've worked for had not upgraded for many years after getting the original licenses. This is not what Autodesk wants. One company upgraded after 11 years, another to my knowledge still has not upgraded and that has been 16 years. If you amortize their software expenses over the life of their use of perpetual licensing, you will see why subscription based licensing does not make sense, plus the software they were using did exactly what they needed .. upgrading to a new version of software is not only bad economics, but its also bad on production, especially for a completely in-house operation ... and these were not mom and pop companies .. these were multi-million dollar companies. Besides the issue with the cost of AutoCAD, each new upgrade of software may require upgrades in OS and hardware just to be able to use the pricy software whose bells and whistles you don't really need.

I guess the subscription service might be ok if you are just starting out and don't have the capital to invest in a perpetual license, but I promise you that in the long run, you will end up on the losing end, especially when you decide that you no longer want to pay their fees for the privilege of continuing to use the software.

Yep, Autodesk is smart and will make money on this deal ... but smarter people who cannot get perpetual licenses will move on to other products.
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