Author Topic: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D  (Read 5243 times)

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FriendFromArea51

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2016, 01:14:36 am »
This brings up a good question then, What do you guys usually do for presentation work?

I switch between it, 3ds Max using this addon http://www.west-racing.com/mf/?page_id=2979.    Sometimes my presentations are completed entirely in civil 3d.  The surfaces created, images draped, and render made.  It's as high-def as the aerial available and usually more than enough required for discussion. 

The key strength of infraworks is it's ability to import aerials / surfaces and and draw conceptually though. It lacks enormously on custom modeling (buildings, signs, unique roadways, etc).  Users still have to really on a separate application (most often 3ds Max or Autocad itself).  For us civil engineer nerds at a local scale that doesn't matter much. Still it was a long time coming, but I'd say compared to the products that been produced concerning visualization Autodesk should continue to be criticized until we have a visual application worthy of today's automation and presentation standards, and the thousands upon thousands of dollars they charge for it lol every year now.

I see the struggle coming where companies will shove 360 down clients throats and it will be the new norm though.  To me, this means that more accurate, higher resolution, more realistic and unique content will be "better" and more likely to award a project. This includes the ability to map and model 3d objects unique to a project.  There will be an impossibility for smaller firms to compete against larger firms who have architect and structural engineers on board to get larger projects because of this. They will utilize Civil 3d, Revit, Navisworks, 3ds Max and Infraworks to fight for the multi-million dollar projects.

There's an entirely different level of presentation that people tend to ignore because they are used to the same old way of getting, and trying to get contracts. The ability to export sites so clients can walk around them themselves simply like a game. Infraworks has yet to provide a solution for that. To do that currently, I export my site from infraworks into 3ds Max, make some adjustments, then push it to Stingray.  I've only done this once, but it resulted in a very good contract.  If agencies / clients smartin up, I believe this will become the standard of the future.

lamarn

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2016, 04:35:22 am »
This brings up a good question then, What do you guys usually do for presentation work?
Infraworks has yet to provide a solution for that. To do that currently, I export my site from infraworks into 3ds Max, make some adjustments, then push it to Stingray.

interesting..
How does the new "LIVE" fit in do you think?
I am getting pretty lost in all the possibilities of the total portfolio.
Live is Revit-only?, Roads & railways to Stingray or Infraworks? What tool would be preferable for bridge or tunnel in actual Building phase?

I'm just using 'snapshot 2 email' and a occasional video screencapture but it will eventually evolve ..
 
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FriendFromArea51

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2016, 09:47:56 am »
For a bidding process I could see infraworks used initially within design teams. That would be pushed to 3ds Max.  Revit models would also be pushed to 3ds Max. Once complete, that would be exported to stingray, where it would finally be published for online.  Right now this can be accomplished in about an hour if there are no customization or changes. 

The live project I did I simply provided a link to an online file.  When our client clicked the link they were able to walk around their site, compare views from different locations, etc. It was a 500-acre project. Millions of polygons and handled as well as any video game a person might play. If / when agencies get with the times, they could exclude the initial interview processes and ask for proposal options in this form.  Private developers eat it up, but hard to make them volunteer to pay for it.  Of course this negates the importance of the "relationship" between an engineer and his / her client at the start of the project.  The preferred approach is still a handshake, but I see engineering in two different forms...a local, then global scale. Local scale probably not an issue, but if companies want to compete on a global scale presenting an option to simply click on a link and walk around and review a proposed design, well, hard to argue that doesn't save everyone's time...the client may simply come to them for that handshake, rather than the other way around.  In fact, some clients I've seen this is exactly how they choose their architect (initially based on their online presentation).  I can see this being pushed to the civil side.

This brings up a good question then, What do you guys usually do for presentation work?
Infraworks has yet to provide a solution for that. To do that currently, I export my site from infraworks into 3ds Max, make some adjustments, then push it to Stingray.

interesting..
How does the new "LIVE" fit in do you think?
I am getting pretty lost in all the possibilities of the total portfolio.
Live is Revit-only?, Roads & railways to Stingray or Infraworks? What tool would be preferable for bridge or tunnel in actual Building phase?

I'm just using 'snapshot 2 email' and a occasional video screencapture but it will eventually evolve ..
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 09:51:01 am by Area51Visitor »

mjfarrell

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2016, 10:15:46 am »
Given that much of what engineers do is not readily visible and or glamourous, visualization tools are not what they need more of.

"Hey look this street slopes less than 2%"....yeah that's a blockbuster presentation right there.

"And did we mention the HDPE Storm and separate sanitary sewer pipes running under it?"   -  edge of your seat stuff right there


Now for planners, and developers; yes a visual more readily tells(sells)  their story to the prospective stake holders.

Same for tunnels, and bridges, however often the design concept (sketch) is just the picture, and the real engineering solutions, and
challenges are not apparent until after the award of the contract.

What the civil  world needs is actual pressure network and gravity networks that work, AND have built in linked, dynamic modeling capabilities.
Put those inside Civil 3D, and or Infraworks, so that we can get more of that un-sexy stuff done, faster and more intelligently and we'll be happy.



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MSTG007

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2016, 10:35:30 am »
I agree with that statement... True here....
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Matt__W

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2016, 01:15:36 pm »
...and we'll be happy.
Pffftt.... who are you kidding? You'll never be happy.   :wink:
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lamarn

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2016, 05:17:44 pm »
Now for planners, and developers; yes a visual more readily tells(sells)  their story to the prospective stake holders.
Same for tunnels, and bridges, however often the design concept (sketch) is just the picture, and the real engineering solutions, and
challenges are not apparent until after the award of the contract.


I do not know how this works in your country but in :yay!:  Holland  :yay!: hotshot architects are involved in an early stage.
No dull sketches here. They don't even begin with logic mechanics. Mostly a complex 3D shape will prefail from the architect is the beginning.
It just happened that i was just updating a slideshare of my 3D portfolio when i saw again this great presentation from Joris Smits. I works on the bridge in page 10. & 13. As a simple 3D draftsman i am very pleased that in Holland Architects take the lead and make such statements.

What Autodesk products will these guys be using in a view years? Just 3DMax?

http://www.slideshare.net/jorissmits/portfolio-joris-smits

« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 05:21:56 pm by lamarn »
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FriendFromArea51

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2016, 12:19:41 am »
2nd that.

Given that much of what engineers do is not readily visible and or glamourous, visualization tools are not what they need more of.

"Hey look this street slopes less than 2%"....yeah that's a blockbuster presentation right there.

"And did we mention the HDPE Storm and separate sanitary sewer pipes running under it?"   -  edge of your seat stuff right there


Now for planners, and developers; yes a visual more readily tells(sells)  their story to the prospective stake holders.

Same for tunnels, and bridges, however often the design concept (sketch) is just the picture, and the real engineering solutions, and
challenges are not apparent until after the award of the contract.

What the civil  world needs is actual pressure network and gravity networks that work, AND have built in linked, dynamic modeling capabilities.
Put those inside Civil 3D, and or Infraworks, so that we can get more of that un-sexy stuff done, faster and more intelligently and we'll be happy.

MSTG007

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2016, 07:11:44 am »
Just a thought here... Revit... What has caused "Revit" not to become civil? I just thought if Revit was where the next big thing is, you would think all the other main construction type apps would be integrated with. I am still wondering in the future if Infraworks will be totally incased with Civil3D CAD. (All in one app). . .
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lamarn

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2016, 09:16:36 am »
Just a thought here... Revit... What has caused "Revit" not to become civil?

Been asking that for quite some time. More questions pop up for everytime a new piece of software is added to the portfolio Revit is being 'pushed' heavily for the next thing to AutoCAD in general. However, for civil structures  in there questionable little advantage over AutoCAD. Yes, you can more easily create  3d views and sections for sure. The modeling functions have have some advantages but lack boolean operations you can do in AutoCAD. And I am amazed vertical and horizontal are not programmed more rigid in Revit. We are facing a lot of challenges trying to work together with the guys who use Civil3d for roads and GIS. Some time ago I was amazed that Autodesk last update on portfolio projects for the different products didn't include anything civil anymore (but I agree it is for buildings anyway). Just a week later i found out the reference/ portfolio idea was abandoned. To be honest I am totally lost what AutoDesk thinks about designing and detailing Rebar and steel (for civil work) there is revit with all the addons and there is AutoCAD verticals, like advance but nothing for concrete. There is infraworks with a brigding kit. So many ways and choices but they definitely have there own world.. This applies for visualisatio. Just the same.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 09:21:44 am by lamarn »
Design is something you should do with both hands. My 2d hand , my 3d hand ..

mjfarrell

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2016, 09:18:26 am »
Just a thought here... Revit... What has caused "Revit" not to become civil? I just thought if Revit was where the next big thing is, you would think all the other main construction type apps would be integrated with. I am still wondering in the future if Infraworks will be totally incased with Civil3D CAD. (All in one app). . .
highly doubt it...otherwise would would miss the fun of trying to find the right import/export formats so we can use our data from one application to the next.
You know the lack of real product integration is key with all autodesk products, just barely being able to work with the data each produces.

Like WHY did they not allow direct linking of the civil model, or even support for Land XML?

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MSTG007

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2016, 09:20:49 am »
I do agree. But with all design software aside. Who is going about this in a normal fashion? Bently, Autodesk, etc?
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lamarn

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Re: Infraworks 360 with Civil3D
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2016, 09:23:32 am »
 some have a more higher ambition to integrate it more. Before selling the next thing..
Design is something you should do with both hands. My 2d hand , my 3d hand ..