Author Topic: Problem by boundary between blocks  (Read 6245 times)

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francinez

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Problem by boundary between blocks
« on: May 08, 2015, 09:42:01 am »
Hi,
I have problem by doing a boundary in the center of those 4 blocks (attached dwg), I have to hatch this area.
Have somebody an idee how to resolve this problem?
The solution that I use actually is to explode everything, make a polyline and do the hatch.
Many thank for your help
Francine

ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2015, 10:15:51 am »
Use pick internal point option:

Command: HATCH
Select objects or [picK internal point/Undo/seTtings]:

If you have trouble with some boundaries not being defined, look at upping the HPGAPTOL variable.

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Rob...

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2015, 10:18:55 am »
I couldn't get a valid boundary with pick point even after changing the gap setting.
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ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2015, 10:21:06 am »
I couldn't get a valid boundary with pick point even after changing the gap setting.
What version of CAD are you on? It worked for me with HPGAPTOL set to 0 and 1.

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francinez

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2015, 10:27:47 am »
I tested the hatch command after setting HPGAPTOL to max: 5000 (Autocad 2013) and I get an error message: A closed boundary could not be determined.
Is something wrong with the blocks?

Rob...

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2015, 10:36:48 am »
Same here on MEP 2014.
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Rob...

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2015, 10:47:53 am »
ron, when I open your file, I see your hatch fine in the preview, but after opening, it changes to this.
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ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2015, 11:09:54 am »
Works without a hitch on 2016.

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Rob...

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2015, 11:15:18 am »
Works without a hitch on 2016.

I don't doubt it but when I open it, the hatch changes. We still don't know what version the OP is using. I wonder if something was fixed with hatches. It will be a while before I can test it in 2016.
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mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2015, 11:26:40 am »
OK the issue is that the geometry is somehow 3d and not parallel with the world UCS

To RESOLVE

Opened each BLOCK in block editor
Closed the open polyline(s)
used FLATTEN command without hidden line removal
Saved changes to block and hatch then worked as expected.
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mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2015, 11:33:53 am »
Works without a hitch on 2016.

I don't doubt it but when I open it, the hatch changes. We still don't know what version the OP is using. I wonder if something was fixed with hatches. It will be a while before I can test it in 2016.

I tested the hatch command after setting HPGAPTOL to max: 5000 (Autocad 2013) and I get an error message: A closed boundary could not be determined.
Is something wrong with the blocks?
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Rob...

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2015, 11:34:48 am »
Just like selecting objects, it doesn't work here.
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mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2015, 11:36:32 am »
Just like selecting objects, it doesn't work here.
did you flatten all the geometry in all the blocks.???..there are at least three (3) different blocks in that assembly.
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mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2015, 11:38:03 am »
...
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Rob...

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2015, 11:38:51 am »
It doesn't work.
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ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2015, 11:39:27 am »
It's not a version issue .. works fine for me in AutoCAD 2009. Must be a variable I set in the background to maintain consistency.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 11:42:30 am by ronjonp »

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mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2015, 11:43:27 am »
works here after flattening the geometry inside those blocks...and hpgaptol is jack up to 5000 (?) v2014
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ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2015, 11:48:45 am »
LOL .. it even works in AutoCAD 14 for me....


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Rob...

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2015, 11:52:36 am »
I wonder what setting it is.
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ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2015, 11:54:38 am »
I wonder what setting it is.
Well it's not HPGAPTOL since that was introduced in 2005 :)

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Rob...

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2015, 11:58:22 am »
I don't do much hatching and I've got a fairly fresh install so they should all be OOTB defaults. Maybe it's something to do with the MEP stuff. On the other hand, we still haven't heard back from the OP.
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ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2015, 12:07:40 pm »
Dumb question but .. is everything visible in the screen when picking the internal point? I can only replicate the issue when I zoom into a corner and pick.

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mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2015, 12:14:49 pm »
it occurred hear even with everything visible

hmm might this point to TREEDEPTH being set differently? DEFAULT 3020 set here
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Rob...

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2015, 12:18:55 pm »
Dumb question but .. is everything visible in the screen when picking the internal point? I can only replicate the issue when I zoom into a corner and pick.

Yes, everything is visible. Don't forget that when I opened your drawing with the hatch, it changed.
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ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2015, 12:21:08 pm »
Dumb question but .. is everything visible in the screen when picking the internal point? I can only replicate the issue when I zoom into a corner and pick.

Yes, everything is visible. Don't forget that when I opened your drawing with the hatch, it changed.
What happens when you open this one?

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Rob...

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2015, 12:23:51 pm »
Same exact thing
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ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2015, 12:26:46 pm »
I'm out of ideas *shrug*

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mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2015, 12:27:55 pm »
first I deleted your Hatch area (it was fine)

then I attempt to hatch see attachments below

Error Message

Then Resultant


Edit blocks
Flatten the geometry
Hatch works fine
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ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2015, 12:32:16 pm »
Still makes no sense that it works for me on 3 different versions of AutoCAD.

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mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2015, 12:33:25 pm »
Still makes no sense that it works for me on 3 different versions of AutoCAD.
you're special that way 
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ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2015, 12:37:00 pm »
Still makes no sense that it works for me on 3 different versions of AutoCAD.
you're special that way
Not as special as you...

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mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2015, 12:38:59 pm »
Still makes no sense that it works for me on 3 different versions of AutoCAD.
you're special that way
Not as special as you...
no you're speacial
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Michael Farrell
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ronjonp

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2015, 12:41:52 pm »
Still makes no sense that it works for me on 3 different versions of AutoCAD.
you're special that way
Not as special as you...
no you're speacial
Your spelling is special  ;D

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francinez

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2015, 07:45:43 am »
Hello everybody,

Many thank for all your answers, I have tested your proposition, some works but I have to find I way to do it more systematic.

Regards
Francine

mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2015, 10:06:41 am »
How are you generating those cut sections of what appears to be a metal curtain wall assembly? (Extruded Aluminum Sections)
So I must ask where are those extrusions coming from?  Inventor or other?

The 'problem' is originating there...as it is creating sections that are not in the same plane, thus the need to flatten them to get hatch to work properly.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 10:36:58 am by mjfarrell »
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francinez

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2015, 10:35:05 am »
Yes these are aluminum profiles rolled with thermalbreak, we get about 200 drawing (dwg files) from the supplier.
So I will check all those drawings.
Many thank


mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2015, 10:38:53 am »
Yes these are aluminum profiles rolled with thermalbreak, we get about 200 drawing (dwg files) from the supplier.
So I will check all those drawings.
Many thank

I would ask them what software is being used to generate those sections?


Could be there is a better export method to give you the sections in a more 2d format for your needs.
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francinez

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2015, 11:28:32 am »
Hello,

I put everything to Z=0 but I can't boundary this internal part...Have somebody a solution?

Best regards

Rob...

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2015, 11:41:48 am »
Okay, there was a lot of discussion here that suggested the issue may be related to using a vertical product. What flavor of AutoCAD are you using? Look into setting up as vanilla CAD and see if the hatch will work.
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Jeff H

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2015, 11:56:38 am »
Use pick internal point option:

Command: HATCH
Select objects or [picK internal point/Undo/seTtings]:

If you have trouble with some boundaries not being defined, look at upping the HPGAPTOL variable.

Welcome to TheSwamp :)

Man I had someone bitching that I used hatches for ceiling grids, until I showed them with HPORIGINMODE, HPGAPTOL, HPBOUNDRETAIN, was 10 times faster and also saved bunch time in Agi32 using closed polylines to create areas.


mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2015, 12:28:22 pm »
Hello,

I put everything to Z=0 but I can't boundary this internal part...Have somebody a solution?

Best regards

use flatten instead...and if these are blocks as last time...go into block editor and flatten the objects there as well
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Michael Farrell
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mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2015, 12:31:48 pm »
zoom in to limit number of objects on screen...

HPGAPTOL set to 500

Pick internal point = success

Also Island detection set to NORMAL
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 12:53:52 pm by mjfarrell »
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francinez

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2015, 04:33:31 am »
Hello,

Yesterday a put the HPGAPTOL to 5000, it doesn't work....today I change the HPGAPTOL to 500 and it works ....I understand nothing...
Is it coming from the Island detection?
I am working with Autocad 2013!

Best regards

francinez

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2015, 05:05:01 am »
I understand nothing: boundary doesn't work, than I zoom in out sometime and now bounday works. it is totally crazy

mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2015, 09:02:17 am »
I think it really has to do with the complexity of the geometry....

crazy I know...

because of the fit tolerances of those parts they fit...to the point of almost NOT touching even where they technically do touch, but only at a very small point.
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francinez

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2015, 09:22:50 am »
Do you know a way to override this problem? I need a approximativ contour that is possible to hatch

mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2015, 10:15:49 am »
not sure if you will be 'allowed' to do this; as I do not know the intended purpose of your drawings

however this appeared to work, and the 'solution' may require this to be done to different components for differing assemblies

However what I did;

set hpgaptol back to 0

took the two outside components, and used the midpoint of that little line @ center of the feature as a base point I scaled the component 1.00000001
this was enough to allow the hatch operation to proceed normally

If yours are not drawings used to manufacture this item it should not cause any harm
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mjfarrell

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2015, 10:18:51 am »
one could even resort to  NON ASSOCIATIVE Hatch boundary....

offset your features something like 0.0000001

HATCH

then delete the offset objects
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Michael Farrell
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francinez

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Re: Problem by boundary between blocks
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2015, 11:17:54 am »
Thank you for your help, I will test your proposition next week.