Topic: "AutoCAD Classic Workspace with AutoCAD 2015"

[Mark]

http://autodesk.blogs.com/between_the_lines/2015/02/autocad-classic-workspace-with-autocad-2015.html

[mjfarrell]

http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/The-AutoCAD-classic-workspace-is-not-available-in-AutoCAD-2015.html

[JNieman]

Having to jump through hoops just to use the streamlined, less intrusive, workspace-optimized interface.  It's like software developers think real estate should be for the UI rather than the actual work space.  It's not isolated to Autodesk, for sure.  I just wish they would respect the ability of software to be commandline/keyboard driven, more.  I feel like it's an idea that's being phased out of most modern software design in general.

[mjfarrell]

Well it's about marketing, see.
If the thing doesn't 'look' new then they can't sell it as 'new'.
Even if and or when all that is really new is the look of the thing
(not just the penalty for NOT subscribing)
and NOT the functioning of the thing.


 

[Mark]

They are simply following another large software makers UI. It makes sense! I don't agree with it but I can see their point.

[ChrisCarlson]

Classic has been dead for some time, just get over it and learn to embrace the ribbon panel. Love the ribbon panel, feel the ribbon panel.

[Mark]

Classic has been dead for some time, just get over it and learn to embrace the ribbon panel. Love the ribbon panel, feel the ribbon panel.

LOL

[ronjonp]

Another to get you close:
RIBBONCLOSE
(setvar 'menubar 1)

Then just arrange to toolbars you want.

I use a combination of drop down menus and ribbon   .. but mostly a CLJ.

[JNieman]

Oh I don't mind the ribbon (I mean, we've had, what, 8 years or so to get used to it?) or the very pretty GUI updates.  I recently installed a demo for a model viewer that had GUI graphics reminiscent of an older Macintosh, with color.  My initial thought was "Jeez, if they can't be #*%ed to use OOTB GUI dialogs and made fugly simple stuff like this, what can I expect their dedication to core-capabilities is?" and then I kind of had an introspective moment about judging a book by its cover...

...anyways, my point was less about the introduction of new stuff, which I do accept the value of, and more about the growing INABILITY to easily transition to the traditional.  In the case of Autocad, those reliant upon the keyboard for the 99% of commands would surely find that the ribbon is a needless waste of valuable screen real-estate.  I went as far eliminating all but one row of toolbars iirc, and no menus, iirc.  Palettes collapsed nicely and had the remaining functions.

Anyways.. yea, the crux, for me, was the deliberate EXclusion of 'traditional' UI rather than the introduction of new, which isn't really all that new anymore.

[ChrisCarlson]

I wouldn't necessarily say

In the case of Autocad, those reliant upon the keyboard for the 99% of commands would surely find that the ribbon is a needless waste of valuable screen real-estate

The contextual aspects of the ribbon panel make it incredibly attractive to beginner and advanced users. Click an array and get all the possible settings for that array, want to edit text? ribbon panels prompts the available options. Screen space is cheap, buy a new monitor.

[dgorsman]

Consider how many devices are touch driven and don't have a keyboard, or a convenient keyboard.  How many users are working with a thousand-button-combination gaming mouse or SpacenavigatorWhatever.  Keyboards as an input device are on the decline.

Wonder how it will take for spelling to degrade to the point where we're all communicating with high-tech smiley-pictographs.

[JNieman]

Yes, I'm sure there are users who claim advanced level skills who like the ribbon.  That's all well and good and I don't necessarily disagree with any legitimacy of the claim nor do I care.  I just dislike the increasing disregard to the traditional.  I don't know how much clearer I can put that.  I don't mean to poo-poo anyone else's preference because I really don't care how anyone else does it, to be frank. 

[rkmcswain]

I use a mix of the Ribbon and some toolbars. That aside, I don't understand the logic in removing a valuable feature, then turning around and more or less embracing it by producing a KB article telling the user how to restore the feature they just removed.


I'll all for forward progress, but how much does it really cost Autodesk to leave that feature alone?

[mjfarrell]

Wonder how it will take for spelling to degrade to the point where we're all communicating with high-tech smiley-pictographs.

From the above, you are already racing towards that horizon.   

[mjfarrell]

I use a mix of the Ribbon and some toolbars. That aside, I don't understand the logic in removing a valuable feature, then turning around and more or less embracing it by producing a KB article telling the user how to restore the feature they just removed.


I'll all for forward progress, but how much does it really cost Autodesk to leave that feature alone?

It would be free to 'leave it alone'
It costs them to remove , or obfuscate it.

[dgorsman]

It would be free to 'leave it alone'
It costs them to remove , or obfuscate it.

Free, yes.  Useable, not so much - old UI elements rely on old programming tools.  Leaving it alone would simply leave the program unable to run on newer OS releases.

[rkmcswain]

old UI elements rely on old programming tools.  Leaving it alone would simply leave the program unable to run on newer OS releases.

But these "old UI elements" are still in the program (pull-down menus, toolbars, even the screenmenu).
There is no conflict with new O/S.

[JNieman]

I do understand that at some point you can't keep old UI elements that may rely on a dead or no-longer-used language, or features that are not needed for anything else.  If the only thing certain resources are used for are simple UI elements, I could see those resources coming under scrutiny during audit. 

Like rkmcswain, it is very confusing to me because of the fact that it's still a simple CUI profile away from being added back in.  And, as mentioned, an employee went and entered a controlled document to the KB to describe the process.

I'm just left bewildered, I guess.  Possibly they are hoping to trim away some of the peoples preferences to the traditional UI, switch more people over to the new UI, so that their developments/features have a larger user-base impact when they're only developed fully using the newer UI.  I know they're not real good about fully developing the command-line usage of some newer tools, in a few cases at least.  Possibly they want to stop having such a desire to fully develop command-line-driven content.  If at some point the people using the "old fashioned" UI are so few, they can justify marginalizing their concerns/desires.

Oh well.  I just use LT now as a minor/occasional tool.  Back to NX8 for me.

[cadtag]

>>it is very confusing to me because of the fact that it's still a simple CUI profile away from being added back in.  And, as mentioned, an employee went and entered a controlled document to the KB to describe the process.

'Deskers are not apparently a very cohesive group.  But what ships as 'default' and get priority in development is evidently driven by marketers.  Only rational explanation for the preponderance of bling and show.  'Classic' is not cool, and the existence of a 'classic' mode suggests that the eye candy is not the end-all be-all, so marketing says kill it.    On the other hand, there are Deskers who care about user's requests, so a back door approach out of marketing's purview provides a documented fix.

[Mark]

Oh well.  I just use LT now as a minor/occasional tool.  Back to NX8 for me.

NX8.com Free Online Games, Free Games, Flash Games
Dang! I'd get fired if i sat around all day and played games.

[rkmcswain]

'Deskers are not apparently a very cohesive group.  But what ships as 'default' and get priority in development is evidently driven by marketers.  Only rational explanation for the preponderance of bling and show.  'Classic' is not cool, and the existence of a 'classic' mode suggests that the eye candy is not the end-all be-all, so marketing says kill it.    On the other hand, there are Deskers who care about user's requests, so a back door approach out of marketing's purview provides a documented fix.

Wow. You nailed it exactly IMO.
I understand that selling new licenses is what makes them $$, and the marketing/sales team gets a lot of say-so in how the product looks
But on the flip side, you have many, many long-time, loyal customers who feel like they are getting hosed on something like this.
And as you mention, there are many people there who DO understand the users frustrations and do what they can to provide a "fix".

The end result is a "corporate message" (It's time to quit using the classic UI, and start use our fancy UI stuff!) and then an underground fix (Psssttt... here is how to get the classic UI restored.. don't tell the sales guys!)

[JNieman]

Oh well.  I just use LT now as a minor/occasional tool.  Back to NX8 for me.

NX8.com Free Online Games, Free Games, Flash Games
Dang! I'd get fired if i sat around all day and played games.

I still hate that google pushes that damn URL to the first page when I'm searching for something.  Though it's usually only when it can't find /relevant/ hits for my stupid question so... meh.

>>it is very confusing to me because of the fact that it's still a simple CUI profile away from being added back in.  And, as mentioned, an employee went and entered a controlled document to the KB to describe the process.

'Deskers are not apparently a very cohesive group.  But what ships as 'default' and get priority in development is evidently driven by marketers.  Only rational explanation for the preponderance of bling and show.  'Classic' is not cool, and the existence of a 'classic' mode suggests that the eye candy is not the end-all be-all, so marketing says kill it.    On the other hand, there are Deskers who care about user's requests, so a back door approach out of marketing's purview provides a documented fix.

Yea, I kind of figured that might be it.

Of course - those more prone to desire the classic UI are probably more likely to be able to find the KB article, figure it out on their own, or have already managed to include the CUI option in their deployment before rolling it out to the company.  Who knows.  We aren't on subscription, so I'm still sitting back here with LT2014.  If it gets to the point where 2014 is too out of date, I'm not very likely to suggest getting a new version of LT, and I'll likely just switch to using Draftsight or something else for my minuscule DWG/DXF needs.