Author Topic: Revising 3d models  (Read 14629 times)

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jonesy

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Revising 3d models
« on: June 20, 2014, 04:41:10 AM »
One of our engineers out on site is working with a multidisciplinary design/build project.
All work is being done on 3d models.
All work obviously needs to be co-ordinated with the other disciplines.

In the 2d world, drawings would be issued with revision clouds highlighting the areas changed, how do users here highlight changes on a 3d model (no drawing sheets are being issued)  ?

Many thanks
T :)
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

mjfarrell

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2014, 06:50:25 AM »
design review
or Navisworks Manage
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Michael Farrell
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dgorsman

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2014, 10:34:41 AM »
Simulate might be a tad cheaper.  Only difference in Manage is the Clash Detective.   :-)

Another thing they have in common is a model compare tool to highlight changes, although I haven't played with it a lot.
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.

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jonesy

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2014, 10:50:34 AM »
Simulate might be a tad cheaper.  Only difference in Manage is the Clash Detective.   :-)

Another thing they have in common is a model compare tool to highlight changes, although I haven't played with it a lot.
I have "manage" on my computer but I suspect the engineer on site doesnt.   I guess he was just hoping there was some similar work-flow to using revision clouds. 

Looks like I might be looking into learning what Navis can do - but the job I am working on is using Navigator as their sharing platform (is that the right term - I'm new to all this multi-disciplinary model sharing!) so Navis might have to wait until this current round of changes goes in for checking.
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

mjfarrell

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2014, 11:45:23 AM »
Simulate might be a tad cheaper.  Only difference in Manage is the Clash Detective.   :-)

Another thing they have in common is a model compare tool to highlight changes, although I haven't played with it a lot.
I have "manage" on my computer but I suspect the engineer on site doesnt.   I guess he was just hoping there was some similar work-flow to using revision clouds. 

Looks like I might be looking into learning what Navis can do - but the job I am working on is using Navigator as their sharing platform (is that the right term - I'm new to all this multi-disciplinary model sharing!) so Navis might have to wait until this current round of changes goes in for checking.

He can use FREEDOM  (its FREE) to save the 3d mark-ups
Also all the views can be saved as DWF, if I recall correctly.
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Michael Farrell
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dgorsman

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2014, 01:21:41 PM »
Simulate might be a tad cheaper.  Only difference in Manage is the Clash Detective.   :-)

Another thing they have in common is a model compare tool to highlight changes, although I haven't played with it a lot.
I have "manage" on my computer but I suspect the engineer on site doesnt.   I guess he was just hoping there was some similar work-flow to using revision clouds. 

Looks like I might be looking into learning what Navis can do - but the job I am working on is using Navigator as their sharing platform (is that the right term - I'm new to all this multi-disciplinary model sharing!) so Navis might have to wait until this current round of changes goes in for checking.

In a nutshell, it lets all sorts of disciplines and their associated models hang together.  You could have grade models in Civil3D, some buildings in MEP, others in Revit, big equipment in Inventor (except for that subcontracted area where they used CATIA), and so on.  Navisworks allows all of those models to be assembled together in context to make sure they all fit; the past couple of versions can also include 2D DWF sheets.  It can publish a stand-alone NWD file which can be loaded in the free-license Freedom program for review-only (also useful to make stand-alone archive models).  Simulate allows for viewpoints to be saved along with Redline markups, and comments can be attached to objects and viewpoints.  Both viewpoints and comments can be exported in Reports.  As the name implies, Simulate also includes some time-based tools to control object states using a Gantt chart; there's also some object and camera animation tools.  Manage includes everything in Simulate, plus Clash Detective which allows for check to see if objects interfere with each other.  It can also take into account the time-based simulation.

Simulate is usually included with the low and mid-level suite products; Manage with the Ultimate.
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.

try {GreatPower;}
   catch (notResponsible)
      {NextTime(PlanAhead);}
   finally
      {MasterBasics;}

jonesy

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2014, 03:43:03 AM »
Thanks for your insight. 
So it seems there is no easy way within an AutoCAD file to highlight that a wall has moved 300mm or a column has changed size... am I correct? 
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

mjfarrell

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2014, 06:40:59 AM »
design review
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Michael Farrell
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jonesy

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2014, 06:51:00 AM »
design review
Can you elaborate?  Currently all that is pinging backwards and forwards between the teams are model files (as far as I am aware)
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

mjfarrell

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2014, 08:25:33 AM »
design review
Can you elaborate?  Currently all that is pinging backwards and forwards between the teams are model files (as far as I am aware)

Publish the drawing as DWF
Open in Design Review - load saved views of problems, etc
Create Mark-up - add notes assign to responsible party
Ship-it
They load the markup as a layer in autocad - revise as required and note that the change has been made
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Michael Farrell
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jonesy

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2014, 08:43:03 AM »
design review
Can you elaborate?  Currently all that is pinging backwards and forwards between the teams are model files (as far as I am aware)

Publish the drawing as DWF
Open in Design Review - load saved views of problems, etc
Create Mark-up - add notes assign to responsible party
Ship-it
They load the markup as a layer in autocad - revise as required and note that the change has been made
I'll have a word with the engineer and see if he thinks that could be a solution to their problem, thanks.

Is that how it is generally done in 3d models?  or are there alternative work flows I can suggest if they dont like that?
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

mjfarrell

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2014, 09:29:52 AM »
back to the navisworks discussion
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Michael Farrell
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NOT SURE

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2014, 10:03:12 AM »
In our low-tech environment here, I get all sorts of different types of what you might call mark-ups. The easiest (for us anyway) is to have the person print the model out and hand mark the changes, then scan and email it back to me. It works for what I need it for, but then again the scale of our projects may not be as large as what your company does, and I work with quite a few Fire Chiefs, etc. which usually have no CAD skills what so ever.

jonesy

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2014, 10:19:35 AM »
Thanks :)

I'm not 100% sure what they want, only that the current method they are using isnt working.  They dont seem to like searching on the new model to play "hunt the changes" when their time could be better utilised working out any engineering issues that may appear from changes they might've missed last time out.

As I am also new to full 3D modelling in a shared environment, I had no advice to offer the engineer, and no idea on the "correct procedure" or any alternatives in workflow/efficient practices, so I thought I would ask here.

We have seen Navisworks models on a previous job where we ended up doing 2d on it, and my current project is using Bentley navigator to produce a shared model, but that co-ordinated model is being produced elsewhere, so I have no idea what is involved... to me, this is almost as bad as transferring from drawing board to CAD... just grasping at straws, trying to figure out how we can move forward may form a stumbling block with the "old-skool" engineers who like/want the status-quo
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

mjfarrell

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2014, 10:36:59 AM »
shame I am not in England,

I could come in for a day and clear this whole kettle of kippers up for you folks

The Navigator product is similar to Navisworks
it simply compiles ALL models into a unified whole to do coordination and or conflict detection

Not sure how transferable the markups are out of it though.  with Navis one can use the freedom viewer to view as 3d, or publish them as markup layers, as if they came form Design Review, so they would appear to be more platform neutral.

For NOT SURE even your non cad-ucated fire chiefs could use the Freedom viewer and or Design review to do all this marking and reviewing without need to print and scan, etc
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Michael Farrell
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dgorsman

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2014, 01:09:44 PM »
We've got some decidedly non-engineering types running around in Freedom without too many problems.

Red-lines are associated with saved viewpoints, and those can be exported in reports, much like scribbling on a printed sheet.  The red-lines can be seen in Freedom but can't be modified in it.

Change documentation in 3D models is less straightforward than more traditional 2D drawings.  There's a lot more hand-wavey, kinda-sorta, fuzzy logic involved.
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.

try {GreatPower;}
   catch (notResponsible)
      {NextTime(PlanAhead);}
   finally
      {MasterBasics;}

NOT SURE

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Re: Revising 3d models
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2014, 01:57:33 PM »
For NOT SURE even your non cad-ucated fire chiefs could use the Freedom viewer and or Design review to do all this marking and reviewing without need to print and scan, etc

I've tried getting some to use Design Review at one point and it was a disaster, but I'd love to see it implemented. It's just not feasible for my situation, since some of the people I have to work with have never even turned a computer on in their lifetime. Most of it is over-the-phone, and some really only know how to use an email client. Every once in a great while, there will be someone I come across who's computer savvy, so I do have a DR link I send for those moments in history.