Topic: Civil 3D: Pipe Network default layer for data reference

[alanjt]

When you create a data reference of a pipe network, it hard codes the default layers in the network properties. In your base file (where the pipe network exists), you can edit this property, but you cannot in the reference.
I have some data referenced networks that are stuck on the 0 layer (object layer was set to zero when they were originally created), and I can't figure out how to fix it. I've fixed the object layer settings and I can move the network to the proper layer, but every time it synchronizes, it puts everything back on the default object layer hard coded into the network properties.
Is there anyway to fix this?

What is the point of this if you have object layer set in the drawing settings?

[Jeff_M]

Those settings are supposed to only be used when new objects are added to the network. Since the Network is Dref'ed you cannot be adding to it, therefor there should be no reason to be editing those settings, hence them being uneditable. However, the Dref'ed network SHOULD update the layer settings based on the Source network's settings when they change, but they do not. This, IMHO, is where the bug is in this regard. As for the layers changing when synchronizing, I, and others, have told Autodesk that this is not desirable behavior. I think I saw something about C3D2015 changed how this works.

Short of deleting the DRef, setting the default ObjctLayerSettings correctly, and reimporting , I don't know of any way to 'fix' this.

Note that you can change the Styles used by the network parts and those will persist when a synchronization occurs. So perhaps you can accomplish what you need via this avenue?

[alanjt]

Those settings are supposed to only be used when new objects are added to the network. Since the Network is Dref'ed you cannot be adding to it, therefor there should be no reason to be editing those settings, hence them being uneditable. However, the Dref'ed network SHOULD update the layer settings based on the Source network's settings when they change, but they do not. This, IMHO, is where the bug is in this regard. As for the layers changing when synchronizing, I, and others, have told Autodesk that this is not desirable behavior. I think I saw something about C3D2015 changed how this works.

Short of deleting the DRef, setting the default ObjctLayerSettings correctly, and reimporting , I don't know of any way to 'fix' this.

Note that you can change the Styles used by the network parts and those will persist when a synchronization occurs. So perhaps you can accomplish what you need via this avenue?

Thank you, Jeff.
I figured that's how it was, but it's nice to hear it from you. That's the biggest hair-pulling part about civil 3d; you find an issue and you aren't sure if it's just a setting you can't find, or it's just a bug/crazy setting that autodesk didn't really think about properly.
I hate telling users you can't do something, and no one ever takes "it's just a bug or crappy lacking feature" very well.

I ended up deleting and recreating the data reference.

After recreating the dref, I did notice something odd, we had changed the name of our storm network to have include words "P1" for Phase 1, and when created the dref, it named the layers according to the original name, not the new name. I had to delete the datashortcut file and recreate it for everything to work properly.

[BlackBox]

It's also unfortunate that there is no option to include DREF source Styles, as is done with XREFs... I know Styles won't be included in LandXML in order to support various platforms, but you'd think internal C3D DREF would allow it. 

[alanjt]

It's also unfortunate that there is no option to include DREF source Styles, as is done with XREFs... I know Styles won't be included in LandXML in order to support various platforms, but you'd think internal C3D DREF would allow it. 

No *()&SD(*& kidding.

[alanjt]

While we're on the topic, I've been noticing strangeness with 2013 where when create a network dref and select "include source labels" it's not bringing them in.

[mjfarrell]

I hate telling users you can't do something, and no one ever takes "it's just a bug or crappy lacking feature" very well.

Just went through a bit of this with some pressure networks.

Talk about your lacking crappy feature! So much so very wrong with how this doesn't actually work.

[alanjt]

I hate telling users you can't do something, and no one ever takes "it's just a bug or crappy lacking feature" very well.

Just went through a bit of this with some pressure networks.

Talk about your lacking crappy feature! So much so very wrong with how this doesn't actually work.

Greeeeeeeeat. I'd been waiting on an upgrade to learn pressure pipe networks. I was about to start tackling one.

[mjfarrell]

Not sure how to prepare you for this...

Let's see.........

the depth 'rules' are not set in pipe parts list
The catalogue must be edited using Catalogue Content editor, as the file is NOT the same as gravity pipes it's in SqlLite format
It MUST be edited to add additional materials
Pipes and or fitting do NOT posses the Swap Part Funtion
The networks can NOT be exported using XML
Fitting types (angles) must be switched as you drawc so it appears

The pipes or fittings can not be editted in properties similar to gravity pipes....

It would seem this 'feature' was delivered to us straight from HELL.

[alanjt]

Not sure how to prepare you for this...

Let's see.........

the depth 'rules' are not set in pipe parts list
The catalogue must be edited using Catalogue Content editor, as the file is NOT the same as gravity pipes it's in SqlLite format
It MUST be edited to add additional materials
Pipes and or fitting do NOT posses the Swap Part Funtion
The networks can NOT be exported using XML
Fitting types (angles) must be switched as you drawc so it appears

The pipes or fittings can not be editted in properties similar to gravity pipes....

It would seem this 'feature' was delivered to us straight from HELL.

I think I'm going to cry. Let me guess, 2013 is even worse than 2014?

[BlackBox]

Not sure how to prepare you for this...

Let's see.........

the depth 'rules' are not set in pipe parts list
The catalogue must be edited using Catalogue Content editor, as the file is NOT the same as gravity pipes it's in SqlLite format
It MUST be edited to add additional materials
Pipes and or fitting do NOT posses the Swap Part Funtion
The networks can NOT be exported using XML
Fitting types (angles) must be switched as you drawc so it appears

The pipes or fittings can not be editted in properties similar to gravity pipes....

It would seem this 'feature' was delivered to us straight from HELL.

I think I'm going to cry. Let me guess, 2013 is even worse than 2014?

FWIW -

I just did a sanitary network and attempted to use standard [gravity] pipe network parts to add services, etc. as the client wants to see the service inverts in Profile View, and doing so obviously breaks the main line pipe run into segments, thereby rendering all of my main line profile pipe labels useless as there is no option to account for 'from this structure to that structure' distance and slope... At least none that I am aware of anyway.

I ended up leaving one profile pipe label, on no-plot layer to extract the slope %, and used a vanilla aligned dimension to call out all of my main line pipe disntances & DDEDIT to add the dynamic label's slope. PITA.

Further, mind you in only a couple of attempts, I have been unable to attach a pressure pipe run (i.e., Forcemain) to a [gravity] pipe network structure (i.e., lift station's wet well). 

[alanjt]

Not sure how to prepare you for this...

Let's see.........

the depth 'rules' are not set in pipe parts list
The catalogue must be edited using Catalogue Content editor, as the file is NOT the same as gravity pipes it's in SqlLite format
It MUST be edited to add additional materials
Pipes and or fitting do NOT posses the Swap Part Funtion
The networks can NOT be exported using XML
Fitting types (angles) must be switched as you drawc so it appears

The pipes or fittings can not be editted in properties similar to gravity pipes....

It would seem this 'feature' was delivered to us straight from HELL.

I think I'm going to cry. Let me guess, 2013 is even worse than 2014?

FWIW -

I just did a sanitary network and attempted to use standard [gravity] pipe network parts to add services, etc. as the client wants to see the service inverts in Profile View, and doing so obviously breaks the main line pipe run into segments, thereby rendering all of my main line profile pipe labels useless as there is no option to account for 'from this structure to that structure' distance and slope... At least none that I am aware of anyway.

I ended up leaving one profile pipe label, on no-plot layer to extract the slope %, and used a vanilla aligned dimension to call out all of my main line pipe disntances & DDEDIT to add the dynamic label's slope. PITA.

Further, mind you in only a couple of attempts, I have been unable to attach a pressure pipe run (i.e., Forcemain) to a [gravity] pipe network structure (i.e., lift station's wet well). 

To keep the service connection from breaking your pipe, use an osnap override. The pipe will be drawn without breaking the main by ignoring the network snaps.

I am not looking forward to pressure pipes. bleh.

[BlackBox]

To keep the service connection from breaking your pipe, use an osnap override. The pipe will be drawn without breaking the main by ignoring the network snaps.

I've not heard of that before; I'll have to give that a try next time. 

Cheers

[Jeff_M]

I just did a sanitary network and attempted to use standard [gravity] pipe network parts to add services, etc. as the client wants to see the service inverts in Profile View, and doing so obviously breaks the main line pipe run into segments, thereby rendering all of my main line profile pipe labels useless as there is no option to account for 'from this structure to that structure' distance and slope... At least none that I am aware of anyway.

Further, mind you in only a couple of attempts, I have been unable to attach a pressure pipe run (i.e., Forcemain) to a [gravity] pipe network structure (i.e., lift station's wet well). 

Spanning pipe labels would work for the broken up pipes. Or, the Sincpac-C3D has DLSewerLaterals which will link the laterals in one network to the main pipes in another network. Chronicle video

[BlackBox]

I just did a sanitary network and attempted to use standard [gravity] pipe network parts to add services, etc. as the client wants to see the service inverts in Profile View, and doing so obviously breaks the main line pipe run into segments, thereby rendering all of my main line profile pipe labels useless as there is no option to account for 'from this structure to that structure' distance and slope... At least none that I am aware of anyway.

Further, mind you in only a couple of attempts, I have been unable to attach a pressure pipe run (i.e., Forcemain) to a [gravity] pipe network structure (i.e., lift station's wet well). 

Spanning pipe labels would work for the broken up pipes. Or, the Sincpac-C3D has DLSewerLaterals which will link the laterals in one network to the main pipes in another network. Chronicle video

You never fail to deliver sound advice, Jeff; thank you.

I've been so overwhelmed with the myriad operations management tasks that I've not even begun to start developing our CAD Standards & Procedures... I may seek your counsel soon as I've got a lot to learn on the survey side especially, and now that I'm working for a company that does a lot of that in-house, I need to know it.

I need to install my SincPac license, etc. on my work computer... Once I'm able to get this new server infrastructure upgrade off my plate, I hope to be able to dig into the APIs a bit more (have some ideas you may like, but need to tinker first)... At this point, only +/-40-50% of my week is even in CAD; there never seems to be enough time.

Many, many thanks, Jeff. :beer: