ah that's cool ron i was having to trim the text then was using =CONCATENATE(a1," ",b1) to join them so this cuts out a step thanks. i was actually trying to do it in autocad so i could limit the amount of formulas i need to use as i'm copying and pasting stuff all over the place. since we are on the topic, what i am now trying to figure out how to do is print out some sort of report which will show first a list of numbers then beside it the corresponding number and name and what row it is on so i can quickly match the room name to the number. i was playing with filters but it would be nicer to have a report i could print out. what are pivot tables used for? thanks