Topic: Looking for an XLIST like command for C3D Objects

[mjfarrell]

once you export to autocad the layer names of objects is not your problem

[caddcop]

They need to get the latest MicroStation V8i -  Selectseries 3. It can be setup to use RealDWG 2013, 2012 or  2009 as well as the object enablers for each version.

You need to set a variable for the RealDWG version and restart MicroStation, if you need RealDWG 2009 or RealDWG 2012. Or you can open a 2009 through 2012 file in Read Only mode and see the Civil 3D objects. You just can't save the file or the objects get updated to Civil 3D 2013 version. I had that happen to me while we were still in 2008. It was when they only offered RealDWG 2009. I accidentally converted a file to 2009. Thankfully, we were doing only drafting so I was able to strip out the updated objects by inserting the file as an exploded block.

[BlackBox]

[OffTopic]

They need to get the latest MicroStation V8i -  Selectseries 3. It can be setup to use RealDWG 2013, 2012 or  2009 as well as the object enablers for each version.

I assume this was in response to my earlier post?

If so... As of 2013-01-31, FDOT 2010 (aka Microstation V8i) requires Select Series 2... They're not exactly known for being 'up to date'.

As an example, they (FDOT) have been working on their Civil 3D State Kit for +/-5 years... And they still have no idea how to properly use Acad.lsp, AcadDoc.lsp, have no Namespace organization whatsoever in the myriad of .NET plug-ins they 'offer', and frankly fail to implement their Profile without making changes to non-FDOT profiles which is all around poor practice.

 

[\OffTopic]

[mwrtheswamp]

Could you comment further on what FDOT does to modify non-FDOT profiles?

[BlackBox]

Could you comment further on what FDOT does to modify non-FDOT profiles?

Firstly, the most recent release comments I provided FDOT was back in January 2013... All 14 pages of comments, code snippets, and screenshots, specifically regarding session start, workspace, and registry - not even beginning to touch the actual plans production process (using your tools), or tax payer funded Sheet Set Organizer application.

I have not tested another release since then for reasons not discussed here. Should any of the concerns to follow be already corrected, improved, etc. please take from these comments what is applicable only. You can download the most recent release here (issued 04/30/2013):

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/ecso/downloads/publications/civil3dworkflows/default.shtm



... But you knew that already, didn't you??? LoL


... As to your question, Mike R. (FDOT CADD Applications Developer):

Consider the FDOT Profile (.ARG), which loads myriad registry changes, and saves to the 'Civil 3D' workspace (stored in main CUIx, and applies to all Profiles), rather than creating a workspace of your own (stored in your own CUIx)... Which in and of itself is ironic, given that you implement the FDOT Ribbon via .NET plug-in (which is/was inefficient, had typo(s) in it, etc.), rather than CUIx, which precludes one's ability to save role-specific Ribbon components (i.e., technician, designer, etc.) to one's own workspace... Instead, one is relegated to using your Ribbon the way FDOT (you) have poorly chosen to implement it.

Further, Aecc*FloridaDOT registered applications have been added to the core product in lieu of being loaded only as part of an FDOT plug-in project, which means these applications are being loaded into each-and-every-session no matter if one is working on an FDOT project, or a California private client project... This is simply not necessary, and takes additional time at session start to load them (regardless of one's computer hardware configuration performance).


Given the advent of Autoloader starting in 2012 products, I personally feel that FDOT's plug-in should be made available in the form of an Autoloader .bundle (demand-loaded, based on the CPROFILE system variable) and published at Autodesk Exchange... I have much more faith in ADN staff than FDOT's developers, and that's saying something.

Thanks for your time, and consideration.

Cheers

[stevenh0616]

I can understand the need for something like XLIST for Civil 3D, but if you're simply wanting to be able to freeze layers/Civil 3D objects through an XREF, Autodesk already has a way to do that. It's called Object Layers. I have seen this numerous times now where new users are coming to Civil 3D and not using the out of the box templates to start, which have the object layers set. Many just take the templates they already have in place and run with those adding in styles as they need them. Object layers allow for freezing the entire object no matter what other layers are in the style.

Go to Toolspace/Settings, right click on your drawing or template to enter the drawing settings. Then go to Object Layers tab. If they are all set to 0, then you can't freeze easily. Yes, if you set this up in the template you would have potential 70 layers in your drawing at all times. But the time savings is huge with the ability to freeze entire objects through XREFs.

[caddcop]

There really is a ton more to the layer issues than the base object layers.

There are so many different places within the settings that have layer settings it is down right maddening. We have been tweaking our templates to try and get displays that are as near as possible to what we have used elsewhere and also to honor client layer standards. And sometimes we are getting labels and other graphics that we cannot determine what layer is actually controlling their display or cannot find where the layer that is controlling their display is actually specified in the Civil 3D interface.

The SincPac tool is a perfect example - it lists layer zero for the object in question.

[BlackBox]

If you haven't done so already, you should report the issue you're having with SincPac to Jeff (whom actively participates here)... I'm certain he'd be interested in resolving any legitimate issue with the product. :thumbsup:

[caddcop]

We don't actually have SincPac. I was going of what I saw when I looked at the image. However, I now see there is more information listed on the left half of the image than is listed under the tooltip.
I have to revisit SincPac as a possible solution.

I wanted to throw in a follow-up on your FDOT MicroStation person. Long time users do not always know a product in depth. In fact, I may be casting dispersions but in my experience (which includes 18 years at MD DOT), DOT users often work with blinders on and see a very narrow view of the software. They seem to seldom try to "think outside the box". The comments on FDOT's Civil 3D tools actually help make my point. They did not think that having their tools locked in so that they load on every usage of Civil 3D as being an issue.
I have similar issues with a number of DOT setup's for MicroStation. They place all of their files into the main workspace folders that are used by all projects, instead of supplying projects that load their files only when those projects are opened. In their defense, they do include directions on making a separate folder structure, but that seems to be an afterthought and can become a management issue.
I will say this however: The implementation of Workspaces in the Bentley products is far easier to customize and maintain than Autodesk provides. On the other hand, the ability to change profiles without exiting the product is nice. In MicroStation, we occasionally have to end the current session and start a new one to change from one client to another.

[stevenh0616]

I agree there are what appears to be a lot of different settings for Civil3D Objects/Styles and that it can be overwhelming. But you have to think about the control aspects of the objects and if they didn't give you the control possible. Maybe this explanation will help...

Every Civil 3D Object can be placed on a layer... just like an AutoCAD Line Object. This layer can be controlled in the Object Layers under Drawing settings as explained in post above. You can also click on an object such as a surface and change the object layer - as you can with an AutoCAD Object.

Styles are where it gets confusing, because every Civil3D object also gets a style that control it's display settings. This was done to help with CAD Standards. You can now, if setup properly, easily guide users to the correct standards simply by changing a style.

Styles themselves can have multiple layers for the various sub-objects embedded in a style. To take that a bit further, we are dealing with 3D objects now, so you have a Plan View Setting, Model View Setting, and a Section View Setting. Take a surface style plan view for instance, you can have 12 different layer settings for a surface style plan view. See the Display tab for the various view layer settings for all object styles (ie: Surface, Alignment, Profile, etc.)

All Civil 3D labels work a little bit different, and for good reason as there are all kinds of labeling features. But like Civil3D Objects, layers are objects too and have a layer to go on for the actual object - again found in the Object Layers tab of Drawing settings.

Label Styles typically only have one layer setting found on the general tab of the label style.

Civil 3D tables work very similar to labels.

These are really all of the Civil 3D Layer control settings. Hopefully this makes things a bit more clear.

Civil 3D also provides a way to control how commands functions, these can help speed through some of the dialog boxes, but there are no layer settings in these, only default style settings.


I'm not sure if the SyncPac tool has what you need as I'm not familiar with it, but I would think it would be pretty easy to write something in .NET to find a layer of an embedded object based on style and object styles. It would just require a lot of programming for the different objects, labels, tables, styles, etc. as they are all different.

[caddcop]

Trust me, I understand the layer maze.

We do survey work and design work. I had to change all of our Land Desktop survey setup to get ready for Civil 3D. In the process, we went from one layer standard to NCS based. This was  often dictated by a handful of clients - some of whom do not necessarily support Civil 3D. That meant that they often have layer settings that Civil 3D cannot accomplish - such as separate layers for point numbers, point elevations and point descriptions. Seems to me that goes all the way back to Softdesk or DCA. Although it might also be Carlson - I have zero background in Carlson.

So all of the point layers people have known and the point label layers will be new. We have more than a hundred descriptor keys - some share a common point style and many share common label styles. It took a bit of testing to come up with what we think is a workable layer approach - that is, where to use Layer 0 and where to use an NCS Layer. By the time we had figured it out, we also had "rules" for how different types of survey points would be setup. Some points represent objects that are usually plotted, others represent a survey point at some point along a survey figure and only the figure gets plotted. Still others represent DTM data which can be point or linear but neither are generally plotted, but some do and of those, some might get an elevation label with nothing else.

If you do not create survey data, the amount of setup is greatly reduced. I should have been so lucky.