Topic: Stage storage earth volumes of uneven surfaces

[DaveD]

I'm trying to get incremental storage volumes for sediment as it builds up in a basin.  I need to have even foot increments of accumulating volume but neither the bottom of the basin nor the top of the sediment surface are flat so I'm going to have something llike that shown in the attached image - essentially needing to evaluate the volume enclosed by 3 surfaces (?), the planar elevation, the ultimate sediment level (sloped) and the existing basin.

Any ideas how to best go about this?  I see that I could create a surface for each elevation and get a volume at each, but I have over 20 "steps" I need to calc.
Thanks.

[mjfarrell]

I think one could create a volume surface using the the top and base surface.
then perform elevation banding analysis to get the desired data

do you have boring/sediment logs? if yes why not use xdrefs to do strata model and get your volumes directly
(I think you could also do this with projected sedimentation values as well.)

[DaveD]

Mike.  Thanks (and Hi).  The first method won't give me the results I need because banding (and generating banded volumes from) the volume surface gives me those volumes at "depth increments" and not "elevation increments". Does that make sense?

The strata model idea sounds more like what I'm trying to get at - I have no idea where to look for info on that.  I guess I'll check F1 to start.

Thanks.

[mjfarrell]

Mike.  Thanks (and Hi).  The first method won't give me the results I need because banding (and generating banded volumes from) the volume surface gives me those volumes at "depth increments" and not "elevation increments". Does that make sense?

The strata model idea sounds more like what I'm trying to get at - I have no idea where to look for info on that.  I guess I'll check F1 to start.

Thanks.

There is an older tutorial for this on my site... (it's free to download)

basically you need a grid of points across this silted area
for each point on grid you will create the elevation data in a xls, or mdb file
then within C3D you create point groups and xdref/point overrides to map the different data to the same grid points
use this point groups to build the various silt strata
so you would have point groups like Zero sediment these points would be the as designed channel bottom
6 Months Sed projected depths; etc

[DaveD]

Hm..  I do have the sediment and basin surfaces created already.  Is that what you're ultimately doing with these points?  That seems like it will still put me in the same dilemma, but maybe I'm not understanding you.

[mjfarrell]

one could also take these surface contours into one of the hydraflow extenstions and use the stage storage tool therein

can I see your data?

[DaveD]

one could also take these surface contours into one of the hydraflow extenstions and use the stage storage tool therein

can I see your data?

Sure.  XML's OK?

[mjfarrell]

gimme that data

[mjfarrell]

OK...I think I have what you were after

the following steps may or may not be required...


I Cropped the larger surface you sent me to be closer to the Final Sediment Surface limits.
Reduce data overhead mostly, and I was trying some other stuff not discussed here (FAIL).

I then created a Volume surface (TIN) you may experiment with SMALL grid settings.
I then perform an elevation analysis; during this process one would select a PREDEFINED Table for the Legend
here I edited existing for speed...and ADDED one more column
to that column I add the data type of Surface Range Volume
Then I set the Elevation range
note that these are incremental differences between the volume surfaces (relative values between the Base and Compare surfaces) not actual Sediment Elevations.
After APPLY, and OK,
Go to Annotate>>Labels and Tables>>Place your Legend for the analysis in the drawing.

[mjfarrell]

I'm thinking of another method that could also be used; however it may not have one capability the above method lacks.
If it is correct it would also work quite well with irregular surface comparisons. 
Something like crazy golf course undulations in the base would still yield good results.

[Joe Bouza]

I'm not sure if you got your answer yet but Dave Garigus covered this at AU. you can DL his screencast and data to see if it works for you

[DaveD]

I'll give that a look and get back to y'all.  Thanks, Joe.

I'm not sure if you got your answer yet but Dave Garigus covered this at AU. you can DL his screencast and data to see if it works for you

[DaveD]

Thanks, Mike.  I'm pretty sure this is still demonstrating the same problem I face.  A volume surface between the existing basin and sediment surfaces gives depths of sediment at any given location, not elevations, so creating a ranged elevation data table (I had notice the ranged volume expression while monkeying with this Friday, too, which could come in handy for othe stuff...) gives volumes of the sediment at different depths.  If the sediment surface happened to be a perfectly flat slope, those depths would be "normal" or parallel to the top sediment surface plane.  But does not give me volumes at specified elevation ranges.

OK...I think I have what you were after

the following steps may or may not be required...


I Cropped the larger surface you sent me to be closer to the Final Sediment Surface limits.
Reduce data overhead mostly, and I was trying some other stuff not discussed here (FAIL).

I then created a Volume surface (TIN) you may experiment with SMALL grid settings.
I then perform an elevation analysis; during this process one would select a PREDEFINED Table for the Legend
here I edited existing for speed...and ADDED one more column
to that column I add the data type of Surface Range Volume
Then I set the Elevation range
note that these are incremental differences between the volume surfaces (relative values between the Base and Compare surfaces) not actual Sediment Elevations.
After APPLY, and OK,
Go to Annotate>>Labels and Tables>>Place your Legend for the analysis in the drawing.

[mjfarrell]

I haven't seen that AU document...(yet)  

However do you folks have some sort of spreadsheet that shows your projected sediment values?
Something like t=0 sediment is zero...then at t=6months (years) whatever is the right time scale?
If yes can I see that incremental data?

[mjfarrell]

I'm not sure if you got your answer yet but Dave Garigus covered this at AU. you can DL his screencast and data to see if it works for you

You have a course number handy?

And is this the same guy?  >David Garrigues<