Topic: Menu Issues

[ML]

Hello,

I use 2002. I have my menu file (.mns) in our shared network drive.
Now, all users have the .mnc file loaded.

Sometimes, after I make a change, shut down AutoCAD and open it up again, causing the menu to recompile,

The identifiers (ID) popup, the menu code looks all weird and today I loast a whole toolbar of code.

Anyone know why this happens on occasion?

Thank you


Mark

[AVCAD]

IT might have happened because....

Someone else might have added or deleted something from the menu before you resaved it on the Network.

Say

Guy "A" (you)
Guy "X" (other worker)

If "X" is in CAD while "A" is changinging the MNS file "X"'s CAD station won't look at it untill he closed the program an reopens it.

After "A" saves the the MNS file, it needs to recompile on each station, do to the networking of it. IF "X" changes his menu's around, adds, delete's or anything it will save to the MNS file after accepting the change.

THis would screw everything up beacause now "A"'s Changes were just saved over by "X"'s change.

Hope that made some sense  

I had this problem also. I use to use one Menu File, thinking

"Ok, cool if I change or add stuff for the company (cause I am CAD Manager) it will update on all machines."

Well, I had big problems. Every User likes to move toolbars, add to them. close them or some will even just delete them if they dont use them.

Once I lost an entire set of toolbars and buttons and there were abunch of new ones that some guy added. I freaked out on him and then went to making a master MNS file and loading it on each machine this way if they change it or screw it up I know It wasnt my fault. IT can still be easy this way since it is a main file you just change the master and then replace they once you previously loaded on the machines, more time consuming then networking but gets around the problem.

Be warned though you will get the guys that say I want my old setup back. Tell them too bad. Either that or create a profile before replacing that MNS file and then reload the Profile after you replace the MNS file.

That's my Advice...hope it helps.  

[ML]

Hey AV

I really appreciate you lengthly reply.
For the most part, I do understand exactly what you are talking about.

One thing that you said was very interesting because I did loose a whole toolbar as well which was a paragraph of code. With that thought, if someone deletes a toolbar from their own CAD profile, I don't see how it could delete the code, do you?

I am the only one that makes changes to the .mns file, no one should have any reason whatsoever to be in there unless they were simply curious. Plus, it is the .mnc file that gets loaded to each computer

After I repaired it on Friday, I did start backing up the .mns file daily in a different location.

One friend had a great idea and I think I may start doing this; put the .mns file in another location like in my personal drive, make the changes, load it into my machine so that it recompiles, then put the .mnc + .mnr files into the shared networjk directory so that users can had the updates.

So, no .mns file in the shared directory, .mnu is ancient history, shared drive gets comiled file "only" then the chance for error are significanyly lessened.

OK, this goes into affect tomorrow.
I am not going to load the .mns file to each computer, I like the way people receive updates.

Eventually I will show the willing how to customize but that is up to them, I can't force anyone to learn

So, what do you think of the above?

Thanks again

Mark

[MikePerry]

Hi

Why not make your AutoCAD Network Directories / Folders write protected so no one can accidentally amend / delete / etc files that are common / shared by all User's. Obviously you would have full access / control to these locations....

The above is how we have things set-up here.

All User's have a private area (Home) on the Network, we then place certain files there so offering flexibility -

Custom.mnu -> This is loaded as a Partial Menu and all User's are shown how to correctly write Toolbar information to this file.

Have a good one, Mike

[ML]

That is how we do it Mike, accept for the access rights, that is a good idea

ALL of my custom menus are partial and NONe go anywhere near The ACAD directory

Thanks

Mike

[AVCAD]

As Far as the deleting of code if some one deletes the toolbar..

This can happen. If you load the new MNS, MNU or whate ever file you load ( i load the MNS and it complies the others either way it works), You leave the guy to his own and he says I dont use this toolbar...and he doesnt just close the TB he actually goes to customize and hits the delete button this would delete the code out of the mns file. Therefore deleting it on everyones computer with the next load od ACAD. This happens on MNS files that are networked only cause everyone is loading the same file. Like I said though I use to do this too, have it networked that is. But I ran into these problems too and it got to me so i went back to the manual installation method.

In my office we have multiple traits and many people dabble in the CAD work even when they arnt suppose to. And they are very unknowing of CAD. So I just feel safer to do it this way.

IF you were to Write protect the folder...would that really work? I mean would ACAD tell them that they couldnt delete a Toolbar??

IF so I may change back to networking it cause it really is alot easier.

[ML]

OK, you answered the main question for me AV, thank you

Now, here is the solution,
You have your .mns file somewhere else, you menuload it on your machine, it compiles then creates an .mnc + .mnr file

You put the .mnc + .mnr file in the user directory on the network but leave the .mns (source file) off the shared directory that he support path points to.

What do you think of that idea?

Also, I am curious about the path at the top of the menu file.
I am assuming that the path is created when the file is compiled.

Would it be OK to take that .mnc file that was compiled in a different directory and put it in the user directory?

What exactly does that path do and how can changing it effect anything?

Thank you

Mark

[CADaver]

OK, you answered the main question for me AV, thank you

Now, here is the solution,
You have your .mns file somewhere else, you menuload it on your machine, it compiles then creates an .mnc + .mnr file

You put the .mnc + .mnr file in the user directory on the network but leave the .mns (source file) off the shared directory that he support path points to.

What do you think of that idea?

AutoCAD at times will create the MNS if it doesn't exist.  The best solution I've found is to maintain the MN? files in a read-only directory.

[ML]

You're right CAD,
That does make a heck of a lot of sense

"BUT" get this:
95% of the customization I do is in the form of a pulldown. I recently created one toolbar. Someone must have deleted the toolbar from their profile instead of just turning it off.

Guess what happens, that's right, it deletes that code out of the .mns file, I believe.

So, I wonder what happens if the .mns file isn't there and somebody trys that?

Or, like you suggested, the .mns file is in a read only folder, then it seems to me that no one could delte something out of the .mns file, is that correct?

[ML]

CAD,

If it is read only, what happens when you update the .mns file? How do you write to it?

[AVCAD]

I would assume you would make the MN? (s,r,u..) file readonly for everyone and when you want to update it you would make it "not" readonly and then when you are done with it making readonly again...

I havent tried this but it sounds good!  

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If you are using pulldown menus it would be better to partially load the file. Meaning go to tools and the customize and then menus in cad, then load the file. Dont put your custom stuff in the ACAD.mns file. I have found it doesnt work too well.

How ever I do have my Toolbars in the ACAD.mns file this way I dont have to have another menu load at startup.  

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Anyone play videogames here....WoW....think about it....

[ML]

Thanks AV

I haven't put my custom menus anywhere near the acad menus in years, that is a disaster waiting to happen.

I do partial load my pulldown as well. I created a VBA module that loads the menu and inserts just that pulldown into my menubar.

In VBA there are 2 constants, acpartialmenugroup and acbasemenugroup
by setting it to false, the menu is loaded as a partial menu

Mark

[ML]

You guys were right, I put the .mns to read only and tried to delete a toolbar, it wouldn't delete. So, that was a great idea.


I suppose the only other thing to consider is, will people tamper with the menu? Another good reason to move it but regualr backups should take care of that.

Now, I need something that can change the file attributes to and from read only so that I can continue to access and edit it from within AutoCAD

[M-dub]

Anytime I make a significant change to the menu, I create a backup of the originals and rename them by just adding the date (MENUNAME-Nov-24-04.mn*) and I keep them in a MenuBackups directory.
2 cents...

[AVCAD]

cant you just right click the ,mns file and uncheck the readonly box....

or are you talking about a protected ACAD file, where all the code is unreadable when you open the file in a text editor....

if that is the case why not keep a copy that is readable and use that one to creat the unreadable format...this way when you do updates you will hav ethe unprotected file to work with. and jsut keep keeping one file as a "working" file.

[ML]

Here is what I did
The one in the working directory is read-only and going to stay that way incase someone is dumb enough to try to delete a toolbar again.

Like M said, if I make a significant change, then I will back it up. I will also make it ahabit to back it up at the end of the night as well.

In my pulldown, I added a few macros, one that will take me to where the working company menu is and another macro to where I am backing up, this will make copying and pasting a lot faster.

I backed it up in a place where no one will find it, so I think all bases are covered now.

I was saying earlier that it would be cool to use something like VBA so that when "I" click on the macro that opens my company menu (.mns file) the read only attributes would also get removed.

Then, after I close the menu, I can manually put it back to read only.

Time permitting, I will lok into that next week

Thanks again guys

Have a great holiday

Mark

[CADaver]

95% of the customization I do is in the form of a pulldown. I recently created one toolbar. Someone must have deleted the toolbar from their profile instead of just turning it off.

Guess what happens, that's right, it deletes that code out of the .mns file, I believe.

That will happen if they use the customization tools to delete the the toolbar, hence the need for read-only.

So, I wonder what happens if the .mns file isn't there and somebody trys that?

ACAD will make one.

Or, like you suggested, the .mns file is in a read only folder, then it seems to me that no one could delte something out of the .mns file, is that correct?

Correct, if the .MN? are kept in a read only directory, users cannot damage them inadvertantly.

[CADaver]

CAD, If it is read only, what happens when you update the .mns file? How do you write to it?

We keep those files (and several others) in directories with specific WRITE-RIGHTS.  Only Cad amanagement and IT have the rights to write to those directories.

[ML]

For now, I made the .mns file read-only but I want to look into having the whole folder with explicit read write attributes