Topic: You down with OPP?

[Bob Wahr]

Just wondering how all y'all yeah, I said it denote section cut conditions like TYP, OPP, SIM, HIGH, LOW, etc.

I'm trying to decide how I want to do them.  Right now I'm just throwing a piece of text by the section cut, mostly out of laziness. Figure I'll probably ad in a couple (3 in case?) of attributes.  Still haven't decided if I like my section cut symbol enough as is anyway though.

[mjfarrell]

OPPosite works for me...what does that section cut mark look like?

[Matt__W]

"Yeah, you know me!!!"


Wait...what??  Oh...  I thought this was the "Unofficial Swamp Finish The Lyrics To That Song" thread.  My bad. 

[Bob Wahr]

The question was not so much about the abbreviation as the implementation.

[Matt__W]

Sounds like a job for (duh duh duh duuuuhhhhhh) <Booming echo voice> DYNAMIC....NAMIC.... namic     BLOCKS....BLOCKS... blocks </Booming echo voice>   

[mjfarrell]

The question was not so much about the abbreviation as the implementation.

are you planning to use section view blocks and sheet set manager functions to link the section views to the page(s) they appear on, or???

[Mark]

Sounds like a job for (duh duh duh duuuuhhhhhh) <Booming echo voice> DYNAMIC....NAMIC.... namic     BLOCKS....BLOCKS... blocks </Booming echo voice>   

LOL oh man, never a dull moment around here.

[Maverick®]

Nice Matt 

[Matt__W]

Nice Matt 

I'm in one of those "moods" today!   

[Bob Wahr]

The section cut block is a dynamic block, doesn't much answer my question still.  Text w/visibility states?  How exactly did you do it.

Michael, I am referencing the sheet with an attribute.  I know this is a hot button topic for you, but I really haven't found any benefits to sheet sets that offset the (admittadly minimal) setup time in doing it on my typical projects.  I know we've had this conversation before and would be more than happy to be shown how I'm wrong, but it hasn't happened yet.

[mjfarrell]

  I know we've had this conversation before and would be more than happy to be shown how I'm wrong, but it hasn't happened yet.

A mind is like a Parachute, it works best when open

[Matt__W]

Text w/visibility states?

That's what I was thinking.

How exactly did you do it.

We simply have a "dumb" block with an attribute and default is SIM.

[JCTER]

I use visibility states, yea.  Sometimes I'm annoyed with the number of clicks required for a simple toggle of a vis state, though.

Other times I will have the section labeled to clarify.

"Section A - Opposite Shown" or some such clarification.  Kinda still developing this ourselves.

[Bob Wahr]

  I know we've had this conversation before and would be more than happy to be shown how I'm wrong, but it hasn't happened yet.

A mind is like a Parachute, it works best when open

so I've asked before and never gotten an answer from you.  I'll try it again.  Give me three things that I can do with sheet sets that I can't do as easily or more easily without them.  You have mentioned plotting before.  I asked how it was better than publish for plotting a set and never got an answer.  My parachute is open but I seem to be falling through a vacuum.

[Bob Wahr]

I'm having trouble seeing how vis states would be better than attributes.  If it were only ever one modifier, it could work, but two is not that uncommon so then I have issues with placement. ditto placement issues with the arrow when it's rotated.  Could allow them to move but with attributes, I can grip drag them.

[JCTER]

6 of one, half dozen of the other, if you ask me.  Whatever your familiar use is, is the best, I figure.  I try to stick with one 'tactic' for that type of thing, when possible.  We only really use attributed blocks for the Title Block info.  Occasionally I'll have an attribute in a Dynamic Block, though, but I've found that we get a bit of a chub over dynamic blocks in this company, so I use them a lot, though sometimes it makes more work than it eliminates, admittedly, so it's not always the best solution.

[mjfarrell]

 I know we've had this conversation before and would be more than happy to be shown how I'm wrong, but it hasn't happened yet.

A mind is like a Parachute, it works best when open

so I've asked before and never gotten an answer from you.  I'll try it again.  Give me three things that I can do with sheet sets that I can't do as easily or more easily without them.  You have mentioned plotting before.  I asked how it was better than publish for plotting a set and never got an answer.  My parachute is open but I seem to be falling through a vacuum.

Thing one you can do with Sheets Set that you cant do with Publish,

Link call out blocks to the details, such that if the detail page or the call out changes they are automatically updated for you...

Thing Two, use saved views to create your sheets

Thing three, Publish Transmit and or archive the sheet set.

Use Fields to fill in drawing information in titleblocks.

[Bob Wahr]

1) does the SSM recognize what sheet each detail is on or what drawing it is in?  I ask because I use layouts for my sheets.  I can see this having saved me a small amount of time over the years, but a pretty small amount over other methods.

2) I have a tough time seeing how it's quicker to save a view and make a vp from that (I assume that's what it's doing, than to mave a vp and zoom.  Sounds like two ways to fry a fish with no huge benefits either way.

3) I can publish and transmit and my archiving consist of making a folder and copying.

.) I'm setting the info either way, either in the SSM or the title block.  Seems like a wash.

As I've said before when we've talked about them, from what I have seen, it's a tool to accomplish tasks but in almost every case that I can see it's not a better tool, just a different one.

This also really has little bearing on the subject at hand unless the SSM can autodetect when the section is cut oppositehand, similar, high, low, typ., etc. which is kinda where I was hoping this thread would go what with my opening question and all.

[Krushert]

6 of one, half dozen of the other, if you ask me.  Whatever your familiar use is, is the best, I figure.  I try to stick with one 'tactic' for that type of thing, when possible.  We only really use attributed blocks for the Title Block info.  Occasionally I'll have an attribute in a Dynamic Block, though, but I've found that we get a bit of a chub over dynamic blocks in this company, so I use them a lot, though sometimes it makes more work than it eliminates, admittedly, so it's not always the best solution.

I agree There is never one solution for every condition.  However to the topic at hand I we have dumb blocks for section cuts (Detail Bubble with different Solid TipS) with Attributes and one of those for for the piece of text in mention.  I find that IMO  "OPP" whatever can be overused.  IF the nitwit on the other end of the drawings  screws  up the installation of the becuase he could not interpret A TYPICAL DETAIL and installed it left instead of right then he deserves the change order.  For the Tail I have a lisp to draw it for me and for what it is worth; I have Pull down menu that inserts dumb blocks according to my CAD standards.  Far as I know; Dynamic Blocks or SSM can not do that. 

[mjfarrell]

Yes SSM knows where the details and the section call out are in your set...
should you add, remove of change sheet numbers that application updates them for you, and none are missed or number incorrectly...

Saving a named view, and using SSM, then allow you to place the view, and scale it all at the same time on your layout tab (default named page setup is specified in the sheet set...so this part too is automatic and leaves little room for human error.

The archive process has multiple options from within SSM

Yes you set that information ONCE in the SSM, and then should any of it change the Fields update this information on all sheets for you, none are missed, and all are correct...given you entered the data correctly.

although you said your mind was open....it doesn't look like it from what you are typing....because you are already attempting to compare it to what you already do, without being willing to TRY it out to see where, when or how you might benefit from it.  An open minded person would try it first, and then attempt to draw comparisons. IMHO

[mjfarrell]

yes dynamic or stupid blocks inserted from a palette can do this

[Bob Wahr]

An open minded person who likes to research might look into it a bit before doing so.  I just fail to see where one method of setting the info is better than another.  I set the information one time now as it is.  I have almost never had a framing detail sheet that magically needed to become a general note sheet mid project so I don't do a whole lot of changing now.  Project info is in the titleblock which is an xref so it changes one time on all sheets, none are missed.

How does the SSM know what detail is on what sheet?

[Krushert]

Thing one you can do with Sheets Set that you cant do with Publish,

Link call out blocks to the details, such that if the detail page or the call out changes they are automatically updated for you...

Okay I see their advantage if you are constantly moving details around WHICH IMO is huge waste of time, but to each of their own.  In my shop we might move a detail maybe two for a project might consist of 5 or more sheets of details.  Land the detail don't move it.

Thing Two, use saved views to create your sheets

   Out My % sheets of details or more I might have 5 details that are Typical and Are carried over from Project to Project.  Is this what you are talking about?

Thing three, Publish Transmit and or archive the sheet set.

  Okay So SSM is giving me a different interface to use core commands which I use.  What is the different between SSM's transmit method that Etransmit?

Use Fields to fill in drawing information in titleblocks.

  Again, we xref our title blocks with all the information on it but scale, dwg number and title.  Tell me how much easier is SSM than this.   Personally I see it the same amount of effort to reach the same goal.

[Bob Wahr]

yes dynamic or stupid blocks inserted from a palette can do this

 Lost the context.

[Krushert]

yes dynamic or stupid blocks inserted from a palette can do this

But SSM can not.  Okay

[Matt__W]

What is the different between SSM's transmit method that Etransmit?

There really is NO difference EXCEPT....

When you use eTransmit (WITHOUT SSM) the transmittal setups you create are stored in the system registry.  When you use eTransmit (WITH SSM), the transmittal setups you create are stored in the SSM for that job, thus giving anyone who opens that SSM access to the transmittal(s) that have been set up.

Po-tay-to
Po-tah-to

[Krushert]

What is the different between SSM's transmit method that Etransmit?

There really is NO difference EXCEPT....

When you use eTransmit (WITHOUT SSM) the transmittal setups you create are stored in the system registry.  When you use eTransmit (WITH SSM), the transmittal setups you create are stored in the SSM for that job, thus giving anyone who opens that SSM access to the transmittal(s) that have been set up.

Finally - Thank You Matt

Po-tay-to
Po-tah-to

Exact du mondo   

I mind is really closed with the there is more than one way to skin a cat philosophy.   

[Bob Wahr]

That's actually a pretty cool thing.

It has always seemed to me when I've looked into them and tried them, and I have, despite... that they are mostly beneficial to large projects and/or large companies where multiple people are working on the job and control is more difficult.  They don't seem nearly as helpful in small shops.

[Krushert]

although you said your mind was open....it doesn't look like it from what you are typing....because you are already attempting to compare it to what you already do,

   And why is this a bad thing?  In order to get to someplace you have to; first, know where your are and two, know the difference between them.

without being willing to TRY it out to see where, when or how you might benefit from it.  An open minded person would try it first, and then attempt to draw comparisons. IMHO

  I have messed with it long time ago.  What I saw was another thing to manage constantly for things that I need to manage once in a while in a course of a project.

It is obviously that your definition of open mind is very conservative or restrictive?

[mjfarrell]

all I can say is that until you really let go of all preconcieved ideas, and try SSM out...you will not see any benefits to doing anything any differently

and as long as one attemps to make direct annalog comparisons of one method to another; in bits and pieces without seeing the benefit of the whole...one will never see them

Try SSM for more than one or two instances...there will be a difference.

Yes each independent feature of SSM stacked up to any other way of doing the same task may seem like more of the same, in a different manner...

However taken as a whole the incremental benefits begin to add up to a positive difference.

From what you are saying Krushert, sounds like you were doing something wrong if you were constantly managing something within SSM that you otherwise wouldn't need to except on occasion...however not being privvy to all that you did or did not do..that's just an impression, not a statement of facts.

[Bob Wahr]

So, dive in 100% without looking into benefits or methods at all, changing standards, means, and methods, to find out if it's good or not.  This really isn't a knock just an observation but it is really obvious from that that you don't do production.

[mjfarrell]

Me thinks you missinterpret the intent...however your questions and comparisons are getting in the way of seeing any benefit.  In the time you have taken to attempt to compare and contrast that which you know against that which you don't you have already spent as much or more than you might have to know for sure. And none of it would get in the way of 'production' drafting task.

paralysis by analysis

[Bob Wahr]

But a project or two isn't enough, you said so yourself.  I did a project last month that I used a sheet set on.  I so absolutely zero benefit from doing it.  I have no doubt that it's because I don't know what there is to know about them so I ask the person I know who is most adamantly in favor of them and just get shut up and take my word for it.  How am I supposed to really know if it's worthwhile or just another buggy, viral autodesk semi-implementation of a marketing ploy.  Honestly, AutoCAD being the only CAD program that I know of that has sheet sets per se, you sound a lot like you are either a marketing shill who has been brainwashed by autodesk or have some kind of vested interest in making me look ridiculous on an internet forum.




sorry, couldn't resist although the first 140 characters or so are serious ; )

[mjfarrell]

so keep using it until A) you are totally familiar with all of SSM functions
so you can see the benefits...

or B) just quit and think yourself ahead already....

let me have you go through this set of docs...which do a very fine job of explaining both the benefits and the implementation of Sheet Sets..http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/item?siteID=123112&id=13785017  I think you will find Part 5 most interesting and usefull.

also note that the sheet set, can be manipulated pragmatically...so one can theoretically admin ones sheets from outside of autocad

and yes part of it is a half-baked implementation of a great idea courtesy of autodesk...
most notable being the one KEY function that they hyped upon it's initial release...a single sheet being able to be used by multiple projects, was and remains broken 5 VERSIONS later, and for this you can thank everyone on subscription...because there are no market forces causing autodesk to care that the products they sell do not work as advertised.


Good thing I'm NOT trying to do technical support through twitter....or half of this would be chopped off already

[Bob Wahr]

I scanned over the docs, will read them in more detail and try it out.  A lot of the way both you and the documents talk about it though is so like Nigel Tufnel.  But...you can do it with sheet sets.

[David Hall]

most notable being the one KEY function that they hyped upon it's initial release...a single sheet being able to be used by multiple projects, was and remains broken 5 VERSIONS later

The one and ONLY reason I dont use SSM.  Our projects share drawings on every single project, thus the non use.  Each release I check to see if its fixed, and then continue the old way

[mjfarrell]

most notable being the one KEY function that they hyped upon it's initial release...a single sheet being able to be used by multiple projects, was and remains broken 5 VERSIONS later

The one and ONLY reason I dont use SSM.  Our projects share drawings on every single project, thus the non use.  Each release I check to see if its fixed, and then continue the old way

See what your subscription money buys you?


And they have no incentive to fix it as long as folks 'buy-in' (notice I did not say were FORCED to buy the subscription?) to the subscription program.

[Krushert]

most notable being the one KEY function that they hyped upon it's initial release...a single sheet being able to be used by multiple projects, was and remains broken 5 VERSIONS later

The one and ONLY reason I dont use SSM.  Our projects share drawings on every single project, thus the non use.  Each release I check to see if its fixed, and then continue the old way

See what your subscription money buys you?


And they have no incentive to fix it as long as folks 'buy-in' (notice I did not say were FORCED to buy the subscription?) to the subscription program.

..