Author Topic: Which is worse?  (Read 22202 times)

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M-dub

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2009, 09:00:08 PM »
Existing standards: People dont/wont change.
If they have standards why do they need to change?
Well, one reason could be that they're really poor standards.  Just because "It's always been done like that" doesn't make it right.

JohnK

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2009, 09:25:48 PM »
Existing standards: People dont/wont change.
If they have standards why do they need to change?

Change is unavoidable. For example, the Army no longer caries muskets and rides horseback. New technologies, advancing deadlines, etc all urge change.
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JohnK

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2009, 09:29:34 PM »
Existing standards: People dont/wont change.
If they have standards why do they need to change?
Well, one reason could be that they're really poor standards.  Just because "It's always been done like that" doesn't make it right.

A little of the first but more of the latter.

You know change is necessary but the psychology behind it can be a monster!
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MickD

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2009, 10:10:24 PM »
Consistency is key, without standards you can't possibly have consistency unless all staff have been working together for 20 years or more and know how the office ticks.

To enforce standards the team leader should be reviewing all drawings leaving the office checking against the standard and the checker should be held accountable for not making sure they are implemented properly.

The Boss wants the standards, the team leader must listen to the boss and checkers must listen to the team leader/s. If drafty's don't tag the line they should be asked to leave, end of story.
If you don't have the standards in black and white though you have no leg to stand on.
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JohnK

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2009, 10:54:46 PM »
I wouldn't go that harsh of a route, but i mostly agree.

I was being sarcastic in my initial post;  i tend to lean more towards the "CAD Manual" then the "CAD Standards" feel in my books. There is no way i can account for 100% of the situations so i leave something up to the designer/engineer.

Consistency is the key. I agree wholeheartedly.
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Dinosaur

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2009, 11:17:58 PM »
just to be obtuse I chose the shop with different standards ...

I actually have always worked in very small shops where there were no established standards.  Being the senior person most of the time, the defacto standard became "do it like Steve does" ... worked for me.  It really did not matter that much in the long run as it often turned out with the whole office just pounding out the design intent using whatever technique necessary to get the prints out the door before 3:00.  More often than not those, far higher than I on the food chain were involved and used their prestige to actively ignore ANY conventions even those much easier than their preferred methods.  I consoled myself with the knowledge that even as they were fouling my pristine sets, at least I didn't have to do the work they picked up and with any luck, any further work would be done by them while I was busy designing new projects.

CADaver

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2009, 11:22:36 PM »
Existing standards: People dont/wont change.
If they have standards why do they need to change?
Well, one reason could be that they're really poor standards.  Just because "It's always been done like that" doesn't make it right.
So you're assuming that if they have standards they are poor, or just inferior to yours?

CADaver

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2009, 11:24:06 PM »
Existing standards: People dont/wont change.
If they have standards why do they need to change?

Change is unavoidable. For example, the Army no longer caries muskets and rides horseback. New technologies, advancing deadlines, etc all urge change.
So you assume that existing standards are equivalent to ball and musket and must be changed?  hmmm... standard doesn't seem very "standard".

CADaver

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2009, 11:25:14 PM »
Consistency is the key. I agree wholeheartedly.
and yet you assume that existing standard require change?

M-dub

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2009, 08:05:51 AM »
Existing standards: People dont/wont change.
If they have standards why do they need to change?
Well, one reason could be that they're really poor standards.  Just because "It's always been done like that" doesn't make it right.
So you're assuming that if they have standards they are poor, or just inferior to yours?

I have my own words in my mouth.  I don't need yours stuffed in there with them.

They key word in my hypothetical post was "Could".

SDETERS

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2009, 08:30:25 AM »
When all of you talk about standards what type of standards are you talking about?  Drawing Standards? Industry standards?  Or what how to sit at your desk standard?

We always Continuous improve our Standards.  Part of our way of doing things.  If we have a better idea or have a better way of doing things quicker easier and for the better there is always room for continuous improvement.  We need to cut waste from everything we do!!!

I agree standards are needed.  But they need to be continuously improved with the new technologies that come out in new software releases year after year after year.

Anybody still using the same standard that they had when Autocad 12 was popular?  No more no less?  I guess no.  Some of the base standards are there but I guarantee with the evolution of software there needs to be evolution or continuous improvement of standards.

M-dub

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2009, 08:33:02 AM »
I totally agree.

JohnK

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2009, 08:51:00 AM »
Existing standards: People dont/wont change.
If they have standards why do they need to change?

Change is unavoidable. For example, the Army no longer caries muskets and rides horseback. New technologies, advancing deadlines, etc all urge change.
So you assume that existing standards are equivalent to ball and musket and must be changed?  hmmm... standard doesn't seem very "standard".
Would you prefer Pen's and Silk then?

You adamant in arguing this aren't you? People need to conform to the industry drafting standards (Leader heads: 1/8" Text: 3/32" etc.) Those standards are in effect and adhered to, the way to go about the minutia of a project are always changing. For example pipe labels inline may not be as effective with the adoption of "smart pipes" --or whatever the newest selling point Autodesk wishes to inherent-- which automatically place the labels above. So a change in the policies is necessary to save extra effort, project budget if the new "smart pipe" is deemed effective.

This is why i said i tend to lean more toward a CAD Manual then a CAD Standards book because the Standards are already in place (Leaders, text, dimensions, etc).
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James Cannon

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2009, 08:54:54 AM »
Existing standards: People dont/wont change.
If they have standards why do they need to change?

Change is unavoidable. For example, the Army no longer caries muskets and rides horseback. New technologies, advancing deadlines, etc all urge change.
So you assume that existing standards are equivalent to ball and musket and must be changed?  hmmm... standard doesn't seem very "standard".

[voiceover author=Steve Irwin]
Here we see the voracious swamp troll stalking it's prey, slavering at the mouth at the sight of delicious meals to be had.  These creatures feed not on flesh or marrow or vegetation as most do, but consume the very interest and enjoyment that any discussions may yield.  The interesting thing to note is these creatures are still considered scavengers, though they must hunt for their feasts.

We see this swamp troll stalking an otherwise benign and ontopic thread first by trying to separate some members from the herd.  They use distraction and bait to attempt separation at which point the troll will jump and sink in it's teeth, slaying any ability for the thread to continue in it's natural ways.  This leaves the herd confused, and will then wander off, original topic left either dead or unaddressed.

Let's watch what happens as this troll tries for a meal!
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Krushert

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Re: Which is worse?
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2009, 09:06:05 AM »
Quote
Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
And another one gone, and another one gone
Another one bites the dust
Hey, I'm gonna get you too
Another one bites the dust
I + XI = X is true ...  ... if you change your perspective.

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