Author Topic: Revision Help Please  (Read 21902 times)

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Maverick®

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2008, 05:25:48 PM »
Many times they pay for a revision, only to realize, they don't like it ... so back to the previous revision we go. This is the normal modus operandi in the architectural field, not the exception.

Word up, Homeslice!

Binky

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2008, 05:50:20 PM »
So you make it easy for guys to make bad decisions?  and you feel that is in your best interests?  okay ...
Thats a little harsh, don't you think?
Yep, thats why I said it.  Your point?
don't have one, not even a dull one. just an observation.

Here if the client wants a change, we charge him for it, if he wants to change back, we charge him for it.
Not very client friendly.  If all it takes is about 2 minutes to change back, we tend to simply charge a small admin fee if anything.  I do retail work, it is very fast paced and to make a living at it you have to do alot of it so anything that keeps the client happy with us, ultimately gets us more work from that client.  We made our money when we did the change to begin with, we are not out anything and build a fair amount of good will.  Basically if we save them money, they tend to spend with us in the future, everybody wins.
Considering the thousands of files we produce for a single project we would burn considerably more than the two minutes just tracking the old files well enough to find the version we needed.  We keep the client happy by producing his facitility cheaper than the next guy, we do that by managing change aggressively.
what you and I do are worlds apart  you have thousands of files my part is less then 100.  I would not even dream of doing what I do here where you are.  Just saying that it was easy for us here is all and works quite well.  believe me when I tell you that I would love to do these stores only once, just not the nature of this beast though.  Retail is fanatical about being "up to date"  between permit and grand opening there are no less then 3 milestones built into the process for making changes to the store layout.  There was one occasion where they were saw cutting the floor 10 days before grand opening to get a specific shelving unit in a specific spot.

Back to keeping the old files, how do you handle the multitude of background XREF's that continue to change as the design progresses?  Do you lock those as well?  What do you do when part of it reverts and part doesn't?  And what of all the files that use these files as xrefs?  Sounds like a hairball to me, or you avoid using these extremely productive tools to avoid the hairball, again, seems counter-productive.
We don't save xref paths so we can get away with it quite easily since all of the files are in a single folder (named specifically to maintain at least some organization).  This would not work out so well for the folks in other departments here but saving relative paths and copying the folder structure would work just as well, but again their needs may be different from mine.
To save the old revision you need to freeze all xrefs used in that revision at that same point.  To recover that revision means you'd have to recover all the xrefs that revision used, which may not be possible without overwriting valid subsequent revisions of those files.
Autocad looks in the current folder first.  by putting the base files and such in the same folder as the working files, all is good no matter where we are, home, work, laptop on punch list reading of a archive cd a year down the round when they change the layout of the joint. We can get away with this since we do not have tons of files and with a little filename management it is not as cluttered in the folders as one might think.

think I got the quotes right this time, thanks for bearing with me on that.

Shelley

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2008, 06:46:50 PM »
Ok I am not sure I see the problem with changing the File name and adding R# at the end of the file name.

At my company we only have a typical hard drive with windows explorer and folder and files and they do a network backup weekly. We have as a company decided that we will have a folder per Job number. Under this folder there are three folder 1) for recieved drawings (there are dated folders under here so we know which floorplans are the lastest) 2) Record Drawings 3) Working Files (under here is a folder called Archive)... While working in the Working Files Folder, when I have a revision I do change the file name and add a R# at then I move the Original Drawing to the Archive folder. At the end of a project you might have several drawings in the archive folder with the same name but different R# behind them. All the while the most current drawing revision is in the Working Files Folder (one level up from Archive). Also Note that we keep all Xrefs in the same folder as our drawings therefore removing the whole lost path issue. The only time we have the lost path issue is if we change and Xrefs name which is not common for us. Also Note that some of the Jobs we have are 50 pages and each page is a file.

I have a Coworker who is doing the lets not change the File name way but its Because he has a script to print the drawings in order and changing the file name make the script error out. He said what he does is when he has his first revision he make a folder under archive called Rev 0 and copies the files into that folder then makes his changes to the working file folder set.

Which way is better? I feel my way is and I have a co-worker who say his way is? Can you give me some pros and cons on both ways that you all see?

Keith™

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2008, 08:57:02 PM »
Which way is better? I feel my way is and I have a co-worker who say his way is? Can you give me some pros and cons on both ways that you all see?
We have done it both ways, but I think copying the entire folder is winning out. We can plot the entire folder without incident, plus it keepsthe project "together" .. keeping in mind that most of our projects have less than 15 pages, some as few as 3, the average is about 12.

Our entire project is less than 3megs for even the largest of projects, so drive space is not an issue. We keep the DWG files merely for the ability to quickly and easily retrieve them for editing.

There are pros and cons for both ways, but in the end, you need to do what works best for your company, instead of trying to duplicate something someone else does.
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CADaver

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2008, 10:52:16 PM »
Ok I am not sure I see the problem with changing the File name and adding R# at the end of the file name.
That kills every other file on the project that uses that file as an XREF.

Also Note that we keep all Xrefs in the same folder as our drawings therefore removing the whole lost path issue. The only time we have the lost path issue is if we change and Xrefs name which is not common for us.
Wait a minute, first you say you don't see a problem changing a file's name then you say its not common.  One of us is confused.

Also Note that some of the Jobs we have are 50 pages and each page is a file.
Wish we had all that extra time on a project to spend jumping around ten or twenty times the number of files we have now.

Which way is better? I feel my way is and I have a co-worker who say his way is? Can you give me some pros and cons on both ways that you all see?
Neither

CADaver

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2008, 11:06:40 PM »
what you and I do are worlds apart  you have thousands of files my part is less then 100.  I would not even dream of doing what I do here where you are.  Just saying that it was easy for us here is all and works quite well. 
Okay follow me close on this one, nobody called me on  it before so I'm thinking it was missed.

I still have one guy working one model at a time, just like you.  If it makes sense for me touching thousands of files (one at  a time by one guy at a time) it makes sense for you working one file at a time.

believe me when I tell you that I would love to do these stores only once, just not the nature of this beast though. 
You guys have trained your clients to do that to you because you haven't made it cost them enough to change.

Retail is fanatical about being "up to date"  between permit and grand opening there are no less then 3 milestones built into the process for making changes to the store layout.  There was one occasion where they were saw cutting the floor 10 days before grand opening to get a specific shelving unit in a specific spot.
Make it cost 'em and they'll quit doing that.

Back to keeping the old files, how do you handle the multitude of background XREF's that continue to change as the design progresses?  Do you lock those as well?  What do you do when part of it reverts and part doesn't?  And what of all the files that use these files as xrefs?  Sounds like a hairball to me, or you avoid using these extremely productive tools to avoid the hairball, again, seems counter-productive.
We don't save xref paths so we can get away with it quite easily since all of the files are in a single folder (named specifically to maintain at least some organization).  This would not work out so well for the folks in other departments here but saving relative paths and copying the folder structure would work just as well, but again their needs may be different from mine.
To save the old revision you need to freeze all xrefs used in that revision at that same point.  To recover that revision means you'd have to recover all the xrefs that revision used, which may not be possible without overwriting valid subsequent revisions of those files.
Autocad looks in the current folder first.  by putting the base files and such in the same folder as the working files, all is good no matter where we are, home, work, laptop on punch list reading of a archive cd a year down the round when they change the layout of the joint. We can get away with this since we do not have tons of files and with a little filename management it is not as cluttered in the folders as one might think.
But all the xrefs have to be frozen at the same point as the revised file you're attempting to save, nothing about that file can change or the file using it as an XREF is no longer frozen.  So let's say next week you need to revert back to the older revision, that means any file that file used as an xref must revert to the olde revision as well.  That might be okay as long as the rest of that file can revert, but if you need to revert only the South end of the unit but the North end stays at the later release, you're screwed.


think I got the quotes right this time, thanks for bearing with me on that.
Not a problem, I've slopped a dripper once or twice myself.

CADaver

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2008, 11:15:22 PM »
Our entire project is less than 3megs for even the largest of projects, so drive space is not an issue.
geez that's our averge file size for a single file.  Just how long could it take to redraw the last revision to one file if their so small?

Shelley

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2008, 11:26:17 PM »
Also Note that we keep all Xrefs in the same folder as our drawings therefore removing the whole lost path issue. The only time we have the lost path issue is if we change and Xrefs name which is not common for us.

What this means is Typically we will have a File called E001 that has an xref arch001. When we revise it we are changing the E001 to E001_R1 and it is not common that we have changes to arch001. If I change E001 to E001_R1 it does not lose the Xref.

M-dub

  • Guest
Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2008, 11:28:14 PM »
Our entire project is less than 3megs for even the largest of projects, so drive space is not an issue.
geez that's our averge file size for a single file.  Just how long could it take to redraw the last revision to one file if their so small?

Sometimes, it doesn't matter how long it would take.  Some projects are just that terrible that the fewer times I have to touch a drawing, the better.

M-dub

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2008, 11:28:55 PM »
Welcome to theSwamp, by the way, Shelley.  :)

M-dub

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2008, 11:34:48 PM »
To add to what I mentioned in my first post on page 1 about the 'Contractor Method', if at some point of the project, the designers / engineers come in and say "Scrap that work, we're redoing it 'this' way.", we'll often throw a copy of the current 'version' in a folder called "Old Design - Do Not Use" and zip it up.  We do this because there is always a chance that they will come back after you've redrawn everything and say "Yeah, uhh... So, the client decided to go with the first design instead.".  It has happened on numerous occasions and on one job in particular, we made it up to "Old Design 3".  Gotta love indecisive clients with lots of capital to spend.  :)

CADaver

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2008, 11:39:44 PM »
Also Note that we keep all Xrefs in the same folder as our drawings therefore removing the whole lost path issue. The only time we have the lost path issue is if we change and Xrefs name which is not common for us.

What this means is Typically we will have a File called E001 that has an xref arch001. When we revise it we are changing the E001 to E001_R1 and it is not common that we have changes to arch001. If I change E001 to E001_R1 it does not lose the Xref.
yep one of us is still confused.  What happens when arch001 needs revision??

CADaver

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2008, 11:41:56 PM »
Welcome to theSwamp, by the way, Shelley.  :)
Yes, welcome aboard, Shelley.  Don't mind me, no one else does. ;)

CADaver

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2008, 11:45:02 PM »
Gotta love indecisive clients with lots of capital to spend.  :)
I wouldn't know.  Not sure I want to.

M-dub

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Re: Revision Help Please
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2008, 11:54:57 PM »
Gotta love indecisive clients with lots of capital to spend.  :)
I wouldn't know.  Not sure I want to.


Oops... That was supposed to be a sarcastic smiley.  :roll:  <- Closest thing we've got

No, it's always the clients with terrible drawings and poor standards that are like that.  The clients that we enjoy working for usually know exactly what they want.