I could dig you out a screen capture, but it may take longer than I have reserves remaining after today to get one for you - perhaps tomorrow. Actually the missing ellipse is the least of my concerns with the storm pipe issue. I can keep drawing one manually for no more than it is an issue. The more annoying problem is the tendency for the pipes I draw from inside face to inside face to revert to meeting at the center of structure without provocation or ceremony. If the pipe display is regenerated they just revert and I have to change all affected by grip edit lest my lengths, slopes and pipe bearings turn into so much fiction. Another problem that is an outright defect in the program is the pipe lengths and bearings being reported incorrectly UNLESS I take the extra steps required described when the pipes must run IF to IF of structure. The programs seems to calculate the distance wall to wall at the bearing derived by center to center of structure rather than mid points on the walls. The distance is close, but throws the slope calculation off and because of the bearing issue, I do not trust any of the interference checks or crossings for these runs. I know the issue was brought to the programmer's attention last summer, but 2009 still has the problem with the pipe ends instability so I doubt if the slope and bearing issues were addressed either.