Topic: Civil 3D 2009 Hits the Street . . .

[Dinosaur]

and it could be much worse.  I am sure a variety of zits and boils will come to light over the next couple weeks, but so far I have found no real surprises after my first test flights.  Surprisingly, it does no seem significantly slower than 2008.  From the complaints I've read from the vanilla folk, I had expected 2009 to be dog slow.  The new "ribbon" is apparently much more difficult to customize than was 2008's "dashboard".  I was able to make some significant screen real estate savings with dashboard, while ribbon seems to be more useless than the 2007 dashboard for Civil 3D.

I have not pressed it yet but it has still not crashed.  I created a clone of my 2008 template with no incidents - other than the point group properties tabs which were completely unresponsive to my mouse.  I created a new point group and went into properties to find yet another false start until one tab finally responded and everything woke up.  Now even the imported groups are behaving.  I next fired up some 2008 drawings and found no unusual label behaviors - yet.  I don't think my pet peeve with storm sewers has been addressed but I had not yet really expected a resolution.

There are some fun looking new toys and some simplified procedure that will be most welcome if they prove reliable.  I was content to completely skip implementing this release unless it came with some major new tools.  Now I will be disappointed if it proves too unreliable to work with.

[sinc]

From what I can tell, it's the same as the bulk of recent releases.  There are enough new/fixed/improved items that it is definitely beneficial to move to the latest version.  However, it doesn't seem quite as pressing as before.

Part of that is because there are no real significant changes.  There are some things that are very useful, like generating dynamic alignments and feature lines from corridors and labeling items in XREFs.  And of course, we finally have our leading zeros in bearings!  But there don't really seem to be any earth-shaking additions, or major changes to the C3D user interface, or major problems fixed.

And of course, part of it is because 2008 was far more stable than the previous versions.  The program is definitely getting more-usable.  I, too, have not really had it crash, but I have not been able to use it for much.

I notice some odd hangups, like hitting "Customize Workspace" in the CUI seems to take a long time before I get a response, and there are some weird pauses in menus and palettes displaying.  And whenever I change the Working Folder, that dialog hides itself behind the main drawing window.  Not sure how much of that might be due to the fact that I'm running it on Vista on a MacBook Pro.

Are you using the Menu Browser?  I kind of liked the idea at first, but the vertical alignment really got to me after a while.  It's too annoying going down the screen and selecting an item, then needing to go back up to the top of the screen to select the submenu item.  I finally just turned the old-style menus back on.  With those, the submenus appear right below the main menus, and it's much more convenient, mouse-wise.

[Dinosaur]

Yes, we are without a doubt seeing the same things sinc.  The whole program seems a bit sluggish except for the initial loading which I am finding faster for some reason.  Perhaps it is just because of the fresh install.  I don't care for the menu browser combo either.  I may try playing with it later but it is pretty low priority for me.  I have found that the ribbon can be still be set as a flyout docked and anchored to the side like I had the old dashboard but its customization has proven beyond my ability so far.

Data shortcuts may be easier to deal with now and it looks like some new feature line tools are available.  These along with the xref labeling are probably the most useful new enhancements I have found to date.  I am hoping that the limited amount of new features means Autodesk has chosen to concentrate their efforts on improving the existing ones.  So far, I am encouraged.  The next two weeks will undoubtedly be quite interesting in the discussion groups.

[Dinosaur]

It looks like we can now copy and share full assemblies - even drag and drop them into the new tool pallet that came stocked with some pre built ones.  Sub assemblies can even be mirrored now, but only through the context menu rather than the core mirror command.  We are at almost a week since the first deliveries and there is still no general uproar over random crashes and destroyed drawings or dire warnings of "whatever you do, DON'T _____ !"  I think this is a product record.

[Dinosaur]

Has anyone tried creating a 2009 template by importing their old template with the "super-secret-style-getter"?  I am having zero success with this technique at least if I ever want to import any point files.  Points come in just fine with any provided 2009 template, but any I have created with this technique aborts the import with a "no points imported message".  I have removed any point groups and all of our office point styles and created new templates with the same results.  It looks like it may be back to the drag n drop tedium for template building unless I can track this problem down.

[mjfarrell]

Big D,

What happens if or when you open your OLD Template and do a Save As for use with 2009?

[Dinosaur]

It brings in the point file correctly.  It seems like there may be something in the point file formats causing the problem, so I will check those out next.  They were the last point related things left in the old template . . . I had forgotten about them completely.  I have also heard there are still some multiple handle object errors being experienced.

Have you heard any wisdom about the new ribbon and if it is compatible (even if not really useful) with Civil 3D?

[Guest]

Has anyone tried creating a 2009 template by importing their old template with the "super-secret-style-getter"?

Which is....??

[Jeff_M]

Dino, yes the ribbon is compatible, it's just that there was no time to add the C3D and/or Map specific items to it. You can, however, modify it as you see fit.

Matt, Super-Secret-Style-Getter

[Dinosaur]

Dino, yes the ribbon is compatible, it's just that there was no time to add the C3D and/or Map specific items to it. You can, however, modify it as you see fit . . .

Thanks Jeff - I did not want to lose it, but had heard some rumor / speculations about it.  How DO you go about customizing it?  2008 dashboard was easy.  I am no power user of the CUI editor, but can usually get something accomplished.  This ribbon though has defeated every effort and appears to require masters level CUI training.

[Guest]

Matt, Super-Secret-Style-Getter

Cool.  Thanks!

[Dinosaur]

Matt, Super-Secret-Style-Getter

Cool.  Thanks!

It works like a charm - every scrap of your layers, linetypes and normal AutoCAD variety styles flow right in along with the C3D stuff.  It also brought in an assembly I didn't know had been left in my template  :pissed:  Apparently if you are thinking about trying this on purpose - DON'T - even if you erase it it leaves a trail of scat . . . a little white pinwheel type ghost image that can't be selected and won't go away.

[Jeff_M]

- even if you erase it it leaves a trail of scat . . . a little white pinwheel type ghost image that can't be selected and won't go away.

The sysvar "geomarkervisibility" controls this, Dino. Set it to 0

[Dinosaur]

Great, thanks again . . . is there a list somewhere of any more new and changed  sysvars they have dumped into this thing?

[Jeff_M]

I don't yet have the shipping version of 2009, so I don't know if the Help included it this time. But in versions past, there has been a section on new/revised/put-out-to-pasture commands & variables.

The geomarkervisibility is a base Acad sysvar, btw. The only reason I knew about it is it was brought up early in Beta testing and I was able to go back track down the mesagge that answered it.

[Dinosaur]

I haven't found a list in there yet but I did find this valuable gem

Most AutoCAD Civil 3D objects support other commands to some degree. These commands include Copy, Move, Mirror, Offset, Scale, Block/wBlock, Rotate, Trim and Extend

I very much appreciate the precise language they employ . . . 

[Guest]

- even if you erase it it leaves a trail of scat . . . a little white pinwheel type ghost image that can't be selected and won't go away.

The sysvar "geomarkervisibility" controls this, Dino. Set it to 0

You saw that in Lucy's webcast today, didn't you?!?  C'mon... admit it!

[Jeff_M]

Nope, haven't seen a webcast in about a year. I wish I could devote the time to watch more of them.

[Dinosaur]

I have concluded there is nothing wrong with the template I was trying to transfer via this method after attempting the same procedure importing a 2009 OTB NCS extended template with the same results.  Unless someone else can try importing their styles into 2009 with the "style getter" and get it to work, I think that shortcut is broken with this release.  Too bad, that saved a lot of work if the source was carefully chosen.

[Jeff_M]

What results? I tested this in the latest Beta I have and it worked just as it had in previous versions (or at least I think so).

[Dinosaur]

After transferring styles from my 2008 template (or 2009 with my latest attempt) I can not get points to import via any file format.  I was in the process of rebuilding my template and hoping to use this method to save a lot of drag and drop for the items I thought were not being a problem.  I took out everything I could find relating to points and still can not get them to come in after transferring styles with this method.

[mjfarrell]

Can you send me your file AFTER the point import, and or the DWT you are starting from so that I can test? Please.

[mjfarrell]

I would like to find out why they wasted effort in giving us 3D parcel lines (grading features)? I can't see any practical use to having the same tool in two locations. I can already imagine the confused conversation with some student in the near future over this.

What is this tool?
Parcel Lines
What is Elevation editing?
To use Parcel Lines as Break Lines in a Terrain Model

What is this tool?
Feature Lines
What is Elevation editing?
To use the Feature Lines as Break Lines in a Terrain Model

Why is the same tool in both locations?

(This is where I still can't Imagine a good reason or answer to this question)

A) To Confuse you.

B) So you can grade your lots. (Yes, you can or could do this with a grading feature)

C) To Confuse me.

D) All of the above

[mjfarrell]

DinØ,

Thanks for the data. I think the problem is a very simple one and perhaps easily reproduced.
The problem as you experienced it actually ONLY happened to me here when I attempted to ADD the imported points to a Group and then it would hang. I tried an AUDIT and believed that this had resolved it:
Auditing Tables


Auditing Entities Pass 1

Pass 1 700     objects auditedAeccDbClassNode(407)              was repaired.
Pass 1 4400    objects audited
Auditing Entities Pass 2

Pass 2 700     objects auditedAeccDbClassNode(407)              was repaired.
Pass 2 4400    objects audited
Auditing Blocks


 45      Blocks audited

Total errors found 12 fixed 12

No this did not solve it.

I then created a new DWT from your 2008 Template, and the drawing was 'converted' to 2009 on the way in even though this is supposed to be the same version?  Problem STILL existed. Then the Light came on, in your Point Groups you have TWO (2) _All Points Groups and one of them is or was locked. Unlocking this group solves the problem. Also it is highly suggested that you have only one _All Points groups in your file.

The above is why I suggest that a team of at least TWO users work together on Standards and Styles.
(The above is suggested only in those cases where the two(2) users can work together without throttling each other, or biting, kicking, scratching, screaming, and or throwing objects)

 

[Dinosaur]

Thanks Michael, I think that extra all points group was a leftover from an early release that had trouble with the one provided ('06 or '07 I think) I actually thought it had gone away but it was at the bottom of the list that I never scroll down to.  I remember that one was locked, but I thought it came that way OOTB.

Now to go about rebuilding all of the stuff I didn't want to import and untangle some line and curve labels.

[mjfarrell]

Happy to help, I love this stuff!  You know me, the more of it I see the more I get to learn, and share.

[mjfarrell]

It appears the 'solution' is to ensure that one opens the source DWT and unlocks any point groups in that template; prior to Using the Point Style>>Use Block>>Browse to import ones styles from the previous version template. And or Start a new drawing in 2009 using the previous version Template, and update only the 'new' features. AKA the design parameters (rules) for horizontal and vertical design, and a few other settings as is also the case with the above method.
FWIW