Topic: We are upgrading Does CUI take place of MNS and MNU files?

[SDETERS]

We are upgrading from 2004 to 2007.  We have the Pnuematic and electircal symbols in 2004 as pull down menus.  Now I go to tools and then customize menus.  Then load the indivdual menus into Autocad.  With this new CUI stuff will I be able to do this in 2007 the same way I did it in 2004?  Or is there a completely different way of doing this?

[mjfarrell]

Essentially it's a 'new' format for your mnues and mnses.
The workflow is similar to, yet different from those older menu files.
Be sure to back up your folder now, before you whack something.

[SDETERS]

Oh Wow whacked This is not sounding good.  I did a search here and read about CUI.  But I do not completly understand it all.
We use straight out of the box Autocad.  These two Block libraries is all we really customize and add to Autocad.  Is there a conversion or how does one get the MNU file to be used in the CUI?

[mjfarrell]

Yes,  you enter CUI (see you cry), take several deep breaths....
and then the CUI editor enterface appears. What happens next;
I can't predict.

[SDETERS]

So is there a way to keep doing mnu and mns loads instead of going through this CUI stuff in 2007?  By what I have read and comments it seems this is not that robust of a process to change these two MNU files to CUI. 

[David Hall]

In a nutshell, you will be fine.  Dont dive all the way into the CUI pool yet, just stick your toes in for now.  So what does that mean?  Do the 07 install, make a copy of your mnu/mns files, and then menuload the mnu/mns file into Acad.  It just got converted for you.  You are now the proud owner of a CUI file.

That being said, now you can type CUI and open the editor and begin looking around at whats new.  Dont get overwhelmed at first, as this just leads to being pissed at what Autodesk did to such a simple concept.

Make some changes, try moving things around, and see what you can break.  At some point, you will throw up your hands and decide you like the old way better.  This is ok.  You can decide what changes you want to make, and go edit your mnu/mns.  Delete the CUI file that was created, and reload your mnu.  At some point you will have learned enough that you will get comfortable in the CUI editor.  It took me 3 years and a lot of cussing and complaining

[SDETERS]

Thanks this makes sense.  I am just scared of anything called conversion and Cry and take several deep breaths.  LOL

Thanks for the information. 

[craigr]

We just completed a similar upgrade - 2005 to 2008.

It was HORRIBLE!!!!! and a couple more !!!!'s

The conversion brought over all of my many macros, but most lost their icon & flyout associations. I basically spent a better part of a week going thru each and every icon / macro and either verifying or reassigning.

Basically, IMHO 'it sucks to be you'.

But, once you get it going, you will like the new software.

craigr

[quamper]

Apparently I'm the only person that actually likes the CUI. Albeit I haven't used Autocad for as long as other people, but I started with 2002 and 2004 so I know what it was like before the CUI and I wouldn't go back.

I personally think it's a lot more user-friendly/flexible now, but my wife tells me I'm wrong all the time so this may be another instance of that   

[David Hall]

Craigr, were all of your macros in a custom mnu or did you put them in the acad one?  If acad, I can see why it sucked so bad.  If custom, you should ahve been able to just load your mns file and it would all be there.  Do you have your icons in a DLL file or did you path them through the menu?  If pathed, you would have to update them all to the new path.  Did you save all your icons before upgrading?

[David Hall]

quamper, I know what your saying.  For new users that didn't really get to know and love the old simpler way, the CUI is a great tool.  Those of us that have been editing MN* files for 20+ years find it cludgey and not that user friendly.  Having to create a command before adding to a pulldown or toolbar seems like extra steps.  And not being able to reuse existing icons is also a pain in the butt.

[craigr]

I had all of my macros in Custom.

They were all toolbars - no pulldown menus.

My icon path was a folder in the AutoCad directory called 'icons'.

I have wondered if this was part of the problem, but had it set up this way for a long time and didn't want to change and have to repath every icon. I figured that If I had it set up the 'correct way' - whatever that is, it would have come over much better.

The CUI editor isn't too bad, the only complaint I have is that toolbars & macros aren't listed alphabetically, so you have to sort thru them looking for what you want.

craigr

[ronjonp]

Craigr, were all of your macros in a custom mnu or did you put them in the acad one?  If acad, I can see why it sucked so bad.  If custom, you should ahve been able to just load your mns file and it would all be there.  Do you have your icons in a DLL file or did you path them through the menu?  If pathed, you would have to update them all to the new path.  Did you save all your icons before upgrading?

I was just thinking the same thing....if you want to easily move any customizations around, they need to be separate from the acad.cui and loaded in as a partial.

Any other thoughts on this?

[sinc]

That being said, now you can type CUI and open the editor and begin looking around at whats new.  Dont get overwhelmed at first, as this just leads to being pissed at what Autodesk did to such a simple concept.

I think that assessment is biased.  It's probably like assessments of WinXP vs. Vista - the better you are with WinXP and the more you know how to "tweak" it, the more you will probably complain about the switch to Vista.  But from what I've been hearing, Joe Shmoe User seems perfectly happy with the switch (assuming Joe Shmoe has a new computer and relatively-new peripherals, and doesn't run into any driver issues, that is).

Keep in mind that the CUI is replacing more than just the old menus and toolbars.  And now 75% of Autocad Customization occurs in only one place, as opposed to the "old way", which had customization stuff spread all over the place in a chaotic mess.

Of course, the implementation of the CUI was pretty pathetic, and it's been fraught with bugs, and there's still the 25% of customization that isn't included in the CUI.  But with the 2008 version of the CUI, I only curse it occasionally, rather than constantly.  So I think they're making progress in a good direction.  Maybe it will be working well by the 2010 release...

[sinc]

And not being able to reuse existing icons is also a pain in the butt.

Can you elaborate on that?  I haven't noticed any issue like that...

[David Hall]

What I have found, and it might just be me, but here goes.  Also, I haven't tried lately, as I was avoiding just being upset.

In the cui, if I defined a pulldown or button, and I dragged a picture icon to the area, it would use the pic just fine.  The problem I had was whatever command was using that picture before the drag and drop would take on the new command perameters

[CADaver]

...
as opposed to the "old way", which had customization stuff spread all over the place in a chaotic mess.
...

ummm... that would be the user's fault, not the "old way".  Our "old way" is quite organized, and not at all chaotic.

[SDETERS]

What Version are you On Randy?  Have you upgraded all of your Menu and such?

[CADaver]

What Version are you On Randy?  Have you upgraded all of your Menu and such?

We're running R2002 and R2008.  As our 2002 projects complete, we're upgrading them to 2008.  All our menus and customization has been upgraded, though we're still finding a few glitches every now and then.  We have over fifteen years of heavy customization to manage during the upgrade.  I haven't checked recently, but we have nearly two thousand hours tied up in the conversion of that customization from 2002 to 2008. 

BTW, we still have to make the jump from MS2003 to MS2007 tools as well. 

[craigr]

'we have nearly two thousand hours tied up in the conversion of that customization from 2002 to 2008.'

WOW, I felt guilty to have taken approx. a week to upgrade ours. Thanks for making me feel better.

craigr

[MP]

... we have nearly two thousand hours tied up in the conversion of that customization from 2002 to 2008.

Yeah but you indicated in the past you pay yer programmers peanuts so no great loss.



/d&r

[LE]

1000hrs.... 

It took me less than a minute transferring all my stuff from 2005 - 2007   

And I still have my menus as partial - and kept using the mnu or mns.... and no problema

[CADaver]

1000hrs.... 

It took me less than a minute transferring all my stuff from 2005 - 2007   

And I still have my menus as partial - and kept using the mnu or mns.... and no problema

In addition to several dozen discipline specific menus we have some two or three million lines of custom code, (lisp, VBA, C#, etc.) that needed to be reviewed and ported up from 2002 to 2008.  We are taking the opportunity to optimize many of the older routines.

[Bob Wahr]

So it hasn't taken 2,000 hour to update 2002 to 2008.  You are using the update as a reason to use 2000 hours to rewrite code.  A little bit of a difference.

[Krushert]

Apparently I'm the only person that actually likes the CUI. Albeit I haven't used Autocad for as long as other people, but I started with 2002 and 2004 so I know what it was like before the CUI and I wouldn't go back.

I personally think it's a lot more user-friendly/flexible now, but my wife tells me I'm wrong all the time so this may be another instance of that   

You are not the only one, I too like the new CUI.  I started with R13 aside from that amount of customization has grown with each release. 
I just plain like it.  Yes it has it issues but so did the old way or "they-who-must-not-be-named" would not have change it.
And yes I am hard core republican and I will vote for Bush again in 2008

[mjfarrell]

And yes I am hard core republican and I will vote for Bush again in 2008

<= CIA Agents

Uh, wouldn't he need to declare marshall law for that to happen?  In which case you wouldn't get a vote anyway? 

<= CIA Agents

[quamper]

You are not the only one, I too like the new CUI.

Don't tell me you like Sheet Sets too!

What are the chances of two people liking the CUI and sheet sets?

[Krushert]

And yes I am hard core republican and I will vote for Bush again in 2008

<= CIA Agents

Uh, wouldn't he need to declare marshall law for that to happen?  In which case you wouldn't get a vote anyway? 

<= CIA Agents

I think there is a provision in the constitution that in time of war, the president can be elected to additional terms.

Ahh here it is
Franklin D. Roosevelt was one .

Roosevelt was so popular he was elected four times -- a lengthy run which led to the passage of the 22nd Amendment, restricting presidents to two terms. He died in office only a few months into his fourth term.

[Krushert]

You are not the only one, I too like the new CUI.

Don't tell me you like Sheet Sets too!

What are the chances of two people liking the CUI and sheet sets?

And that is where we lose it.  What little I have tried to use sheet sets on my own, I did not like. But I have said and will say it again, I just don't understand them and I need to stand over someone and watch them use sheet sets. 

[mjfarrell]

Krushert,


If you have the time to talk about Sheet Sets, I am happy to entertain all of your questions right now today.
You will love sheet sets before Lunch time.

[craigr]

Sheet Sets?

Oh great, something else to learn about

I HAVE heard of them, but have no clue what they are. It looks like a trip to the Help file for me.

craigr

[Bob Wahr]

I think there is a provision in the constitution that in time of war, the president can be elected to additional terms.

Ahh here it is
Franklin D. Roosevelt was one .

No, there was no provision in the constitution for term limits until after Roosevelt.  Washington said something about two terms being enough when his second was coming to an end IIRC.  It became a tradition until Roosevelt came along.  After he died, the 22nd amendment was passed to keep it from happening again.  All it would take is to repeal the 22nd amendment and Bush could run again.  He couldn't get elected again, but he could run.

[Bob Wahr]

Sheet Sets?

Oh great, something else to learn about

I HAVE heard of them, but have no clue what they are. It looks like a trip to the Help file for me.

craigr

I'm not sure light does sheet sets so you should be good.  Even if it does, you don't have to use them.

[ronjonp]

Krushert,


If you have the time to talk about Sheet Sets, I am happy to entertain all of your questions right now today.
You will love sheet sets before Lunch time.

I second that...IMO they are one of the better features added.

[mjfarrell]

My biggest annoyance:
They do not allow a sheet to be part of multiple sets. And this was the original functionality they were after when introduced. 

[quamper]

My biggest annoyance:
They do not allow a sheet to be part of multiple sets.

I'll second that. There have been times I wished that was possible. However in practice it hasn't really been a problem, but it would be nice to have the flexibility there.

If anything my only complaint is that sheet sets can get kinda slow if you have a couple hundred sheets in it and/or if you've got a drawing file with 20-30 layouts as a part of the sheet set.

But I think thats more of a limitation of Autocad not really expecting drawings to have that many layouts in a single file.

But I don't really mind that because sheetsets have saved me hours upon hours of time, so being a little slow for big sheet sets is a fair tradeoff for me.

[Krushert]

I think there is a provision in the constitution that in time of war, the president can be elected to additional terms.

Ahh here it is
Franklin D. Roosevelt was one .

No, there was no provision in the constitution for term limits until after Roosevelt.  Washington said something about two terms being enough when his second was coming to an end IIRC.  It became a tradition until Roosevelt came along.  After he died, the 22nd amendment was passed to keep it from happening again.  All it would take is to repeal the 22nd amendment and Bush could run again.  He couldn't get elected again, but he could run.

Yeah I got confused there.  Thanks for the additional info.

[Krushert]

Krushert,


If you have the time to talk about Sheet Sets, I am happy to entertain all of your questions right now today.
You will love sheet sets before Lunch time.

I dont have a lot of time but I have some questions that maybe you guys can answer.

Just where is the time savings.
My plotting routines gives me a higher degreee of accuraccy and assuraces to clean drawing when ploted.  So I don't see a time savings.
I found that I had to spend time to manage the SS manager in organizing my drawings with in SSM which when comparing time spent to returned benifits like the plotting feature of SS and the quick opening of a File, I did not see any great advantage.

 The way you guys talk about SS there must be something I am missing or I was not using it properly.  Hence my comment of standing over someone and asking a boatload of questions on what, whys, where, whens & hows of SS.

So what am I missing?

Ohh BTW, we are just an Archie shop.  No MEP drawings to worry about.

Sorry about side tracking the the original intent of this thread.

[CADaver]

So it hasn't taken 2,000 hour to update 2002 to 2008.  You are using the update as a reason to use 2000 hours to rewrite code.  A little bit of a difference.

Which is EXACTLY what I said

...but we have nearly two thousand hours tied up in the conversion of that customization from 2002 to 2008. 

[Bob Wahr]

true dat

[SDETERS]

So sheet sets?  Is this where I can have 2 or more different sheets in dwg file?  Like sheet 1 of 2 and 2 of 2?

[LE]

So sheet sets?  Is this where I can have 2 or more different sheets in dwg file?  Like sheet 1 of 2 and 2 of 2?

No.

You create one at a time and added into your discipline [Using A2005 and A2007].... I been using SSM from day one... to me one the best updates this guys at adesk have done.

[SDETERS]

Update is here.  NOw the questions.  We have two menus on a locked drive.  When I try to load the MNU or convert it Autocad wants to make a CUI file.  Is there a way I can bring these to menus into Autocad with out Autocad want to make a new File?

Thanks

[David Hall]

No, you have to let it make the file.  You could make it locally, then move the CUI to the locked server