Author Topic: How do you pick 0,0?  (Read 11963 times)

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craigr

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How do you pick 0,0?
« on: October 15, 2007, 09:23:39 AM »
For you folks that draw floor plans....

How do you pick where to start your bldgs floor plan from 0,0?

When I get floor plans from different contractors, there doesn't seem to be a 'standard' as to where they are placed. Sometimes they are in the middle of a bldg, but most of the time, they are in the S.E. area - outside of the bldg.

Whey I have to replace one floor plan with an updated version, it would be nice if there were a standard placement location, it would make it much easier.

If I were to start using X-Refs into our dwgs, wouldn't this throw that off also?

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mjfarrell

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2007, 09:30:11 AM »
 :-o you mean with all those 'standards' AIA doesn't have anything on this?  :lmao:
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CAB

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2007, 09:31:31 AM »
I use an electronic dart.  :-D

Seriously though, I see no real connection with the house & the coordinate origin, so I just make sure I'm not too fat away from 0,0.
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Josh Nieman

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2007, 09:34:31 AM »
Too many people just draw "any ol' where"

I typically work from a survey, so my plans go on a surveyed location.

craigr

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2007, 09:38:38 AM »
So maybe I am bringing floor plans in right?

When I replace an existing floor plan with an updated one, I copy clip the updated floor plan from a common part of the bldg. that I am pretty sure hasn't moved, such as the end point of a corner stone. That's the best way I could think of and they almost always match up. - Though I did have one that they weren't the same scale - one floor plan was nearly half the size of the other. That one was though to match up.

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jonesy

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2007, 09:40:39 AM »
Ours depends on the client.
Some clients provide us with a base survey, and we draw the building to the correct place/orientation on the survey.
Where no survey is given we generally pick bottom left corner as 0,0.
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

craigr

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2007, 09:43:08 AM »
Ours depends on the client.
Some clients provide us with a base survey, and we draw the building to the correct place/orientation on the survey.
Where no survey is given we generally pick bottom left corner as 0,0.

Now that makes perfect sense to me - I never thought about the plat survey thing.

All I usually get are the floor plans, I forgot there were other things out there - duh.

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CAB

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2007, 09:46:14 AM »
Too many people just draw "any ol' where"

I typically work from a survey, so my plans go on a surveyed location.
So, if the lot is not north south you change the WCS to UCS for your drawing?

I often, as it the case with my current project, don't have the survey until well into the project.

I always drop a building outline with roof outline on the site plan that I create for the building department.
The site plan starts with a copy of the survey scaled up by 12 so that I can work in inches. Other than
that I have no need for the house plans to be connected to the survey.
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Josh Nieman

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2007, 09:54:24 AM »
Too many people just draw "any ol' where"

I typically work from a survey, so my plans go on a surveyed location.
So, if the lot is not north south you change the WCS to UCS for your drawing?

I often, as it the case with my current project, don't have the survey until well into the project.

I always drop a building outline with roof outline on the site plan that I create for the building department.
The site plan starts with a copy of the survey scaled up by 12 so that I can work in inches. Other than
that I have no need for the house plans to be connected to the survey.

I actually change the UCS of the viewports.  We use paperspace, and so I change the UCS there, as to leave the model, by all means, accurate.  Sometimes I may set a UCS in model space to aid in drawing, if need be, but normally not.

If the drawings are set up so that I have a file containing only the floor plan, then yes, I'll draw at the right coords, but change the UCS so that it looks like the lower left corner is 0,0, and the building is square.  That file is then xref'd into the survey (for the site plans) using the floor plan's WCS 0,0 as the origin.

We're still ironing out what method is best for us.

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2007, 10:03:09 AM »
Very interesting, always enjoy seeing other methods.
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Josh Nieman

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2007, 10:05:03 AM »
Very interesting, always enjoy seeing other methods.

I won't claim that what we're doing is best though... I'm still in the 'trial' period so to speak :-D  That's one of the reasons I keep an eye on topics like these.  Maybe someone already found out the cons to a method, and it'll save me time.. or maybe someone knows a better way... and it'll save me time.. either way!

mjfarrell

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2007, 10:24:59 AM »

I actually change the UCS of the viewports.  We use paperspace, and so I change the UCS there, as to leave the model, by all means, accurate.  Sometimes I may set a UCS in model space to aid in drawing, if need be, but normally not.



Might I suggest adjusting SNAPANG instead of twisting the UCS?

Other than that your method gets the Prime Services seal of Approval, FWIW.


Beware, that I have seen even the BEST methods rendered useless by someone NOT following the rule, i.e. moving everything, such that when you replace the XREF file with the current revision nothing lines up any longer.
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craigr

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2007, 10:29:59 AM »
Alright folks!

You are WAY over my head.

The only thing that kinda makes sense to me is rotating the view.

I tried that one time, but when I put my leaders on the rotated view, THEY were rotated also. So, we don't rotate views.

I could have put the leaders in PSpace, but that is not our standard.

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David Hall

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2007, 10:32:37 AM »
Might I suggest adjusting SNAPANG instead of twisting the UCS?
Beat me to it.  This is the easiest way
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Josh Nieman

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2007, 10:35:23 AM »

I actually change the UCS of the viewports.  We use paperspace, and so I change the UCS there, as to leave the model, by all means, accurate.  Sometimes I may set a UCS in model space to aid in drawing, if need be, but normally not.



Might I suggest adjusting SNAPANG instead of twisting the UCS?

Other than that your method gets the Prime Services seal of Approval, FWIW.


Beware, that I have seen even the BEST methods rendered useless by someone NOT following the rule, i.e. moving everything, such that when you replace the XREF file with the current revision nothing lines up any longer.

Yea, I tried SnapAng for a bit, but I am so attuned to UCS manipulation that it's second nature to me, and I work with Polar on, as well, so my habits would have to change a decent bit when working with SnapAng.  It also freaks out the other users as if I cast some voodoo spell on their computer via a file, if their cursor is not plumb, lol...

David Hall

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2007, 10:37:23 AM »
It also freaks out the other users as if I cast some voodoo spell on their computer via a file, if their cursor is not plumb, lol...

Now when did you start working here?  I have users that freak out when they lose a toolbar, much less have their crosshairs tweaked.
Everyone has a photographic memory, Some just don't have film.
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CAB

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2007, 10:57:54 AM »
In my narrow view I don't see why anyone would want to complicate the drawing process.
Draw the house in model space WCS at actual scale, one unit equals one inch. You have no problems
with dimensions, text, leaders, etc.

If you need to xref the plans into a survey you can scale it at 1/12 to get to one unit equals one foot.
Then rotate or align the xref to the building setback line of your choice. I assume all your dims, text,
leaders, etc. will be turned off in the xref.

Frankly I don't do it that way. As I said I create a building outline, roof outline, porch, etc. and paste
as a block in to the "Architectural Site Plan". I don't alter or provide any survey. I leave that to the
survey company. Too much liability for me to mess with that. If any of that changes in the house plans
I revise the block & re insert it into my "Architectural Site Plan".
The survey company often request a foundation plan when they are preparing a "stake out plan". I
provide that to them and they are responsible for getting the house placed on the lot.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 11:00:05 AM by CAB »
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deegeecees

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2007, 11:02:23 AM »
*pokes head in*

All your BASE are belong to 0,0!

*runs away*

Josh Nieman

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2007, 11:02:32 AM »
In my narrow view I don't see why anyone would want to complicate the drawing process.
Draw the house in model space WCS at actual scale, one unit equals one inch. You have no problems
with dimensions, text, leaders, etc.

If you need to xref the plans into a survey you can scale it at 1/12 to get to one unit equals one foot.
Then rotate or align the xref to the building setback line of your choice. I assume all your dims, text,
leaders, etc. will be turned off in the xref.

Frankly I don't do it that way. As I said I create a building outline, roof outline, porch, etc. and paste
as a block in to the "Architectural Site Plan". I don't alter or provide any survey. I leave that to the
survey company. Too much liability for me to mess with that. If any of that changes in the house plans
I revise the block & re insert it into my "Architectural Site Plan".
The survey company often request a foundation plan when they are preparing a "stake out plan". I
provide that to them and they are responsible for getting the house placed on the lot.

We've also done it that way at times and it worked perfectly fine.  The job was done accurately and no problems resulted from the drafting practice.  The only thing I was trying to eliminate is the chance that someone forgets to redefine the block in the site plan, and added a porch or wing or something that conflicts with something on the site plan, and not realizing it until too late... hence xref'ing.

mjfarrell

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2007, 11:05:01 AM »
IMO, the whole changing of the base unit value in cad only for architectural units is whacked.  I hold that they should have simply given the Archies dim styles that properly LABELED the dimension string in Arch Style units format and NOT wank the units value at all.  IF , and and only if logic would pervail, then we could all work together in harmony without EVER needing to scale anything.
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CAB

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2007, 11:12:44 AM »
Well I think everyone should work in inches.  8-)
We enter line lengths like 10'8", 4'4" etc. all day long when drawing objects.
Would you have us entering command inputs as 10.66667 or 4.33333 ?  :-o
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Josh Nieman

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2007, 11:13:27 AM »
Well I think everyone should work in inches.  8-)
We enter line lengths like 10'8", 4'4" etc. all day long when drawing objects.
Would you have us entering command inputs as 10.66667 or 4.33333 ?  :-o

If you were doing surveys?  Yes.

err... sorry, apparently I misread the post you were responding to.

Krushert

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2007, 11:14:14 AM »
In my narrow view I don't see why anyone would want to complicate the drawing process.
Draw the house in model space WCS at actual scale, one unit equals one inch. You have no problems
with dimensions, text, leaders, etc.

If you need to xref the plans into a survey you can scale it at 1/12 to get to one unit equals one foot.
Then rotate or align the xref to the building setback line of your choice. I assume all your dims, text,
leaders, etc. will be turned off in the xref.

Frankly I don't do it that way. As I said I create a building outline, roof outline, porch, etc. and paste
as a block in to the "Architectural Site Plan". I don't alter or provide any survey. I leave that to the
survey company. Too much liability for me to mess with that. If any of that changes in the house plans
I revise the block & re insert it into my "Architectural Site Plan".
The survey company often request a foundation plan when they are preparing a "stake out plan". I
provide that to them and they are responsible for getting the house placed on the lot.

That is what we do.  and we place the lower left at 0,0 or keep reasonably close.
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Krushert

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2007, 11:19:54 AM »
..... then we could all work together in harmony ......

Without war there is no peace and/or harmony.

Josh you have insulted me one too many times!
I demand satisfaction.
I challenge to a duel using scales at 10 units.
 :-)
I + XI = X is true ...  ... if you change your perspective.

I no longer CAD or Model, I just hang out here picking up the empties beer cans

Josh Nieman

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2007, 11:22:49 AM »
en guarde!

mjfarrell

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2007, 11:24:35 AM »
Well I think everyone should work in inches.  8-)
We enter line lengths like 10'8", 4'4" etc. all day long when drawing objects.
Would you have us entering command inputs as 10.66667 or 4.33333 ?  :-o

NO, I wouldn't be having you do that Autodesk would.  It's a programming choice they could make, to allow the base unit to be constant, and change the label and input style to fit the industry format.  :lol:
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Kate M

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2007, 12:36:03 PM »
So maybe I am bringing floor plans in right?

When I replace an existing floor plan with an updated one, I copy clip the updated floor plan from a common part of the bldg. that I am pretty sure hasn't moved, such as the end point of a corner stone. That's the best way I could think of and they almost always match up. - Though I did have one that they weren't the same scale - one floor plan was nearly half the size of the other. That one was though to match up.

craigr

If you use xrefs, all you have to do is save the new file over the old one.

craigr

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2007, 12:52:13 PM »
If you use xrefs, all you have to do is save the new file over the old one.

ONLY if the new / updated floor plan is in the same place in relation to 0,0 as the existing floor plan.

Right?

craigr
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David Hall

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2007, 12:58:43 PM »
yes, but we must assume that the person updating that floor plan wouldn't just move it in relation to 0,0
Everyone has a photographic memory, Some just don't have film.
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Sometimes the question is more important than the answer. (Thanks Kerry for reminding me)

deegeecees

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2007, 01:09:22 PM »
If you use xrefs, all you have to do is save the new file over the old one.

ONLY if the new / updated floor plan is in the same place in relation to 0,0 as the existing floor plan.

Right?

craigr

You could conceivably go into the floor plan and change the BASE to where you need it. The word "Datum" comes to mind.

Bob Wahr

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2007, 01:15:38 PM »
yes, but we must assume that the person updating that floor plan wouldn't just move it in relation to 0,0
Spoken like a man who doesn't work with Architects much.

Krushert

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2007, 01:27:43 PM »
You could conceivably go into the floor plan and change the BASE to where you need it. The word "Datum" comes to mind.
Interesting.  I will have to try that. 
This last job I had to move the floor plan ( It took me two days to come to that it was the lesser of two evils) and I paid for it every step since then. 
I + XI = X is true ...  ... if you change your perspective.

I no longer CAD or Model, I just hang out here picking up the empties beer cans

Rob...

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2007, 01:44:37 PM »
I've seen archies move floor plans anywhere from a couple of inches (which is really annoying) to thousands of feet from the original position. Now, I check each an every one or use craig's suggestion from above and use a reference point like a column line intersection as a base point for copy and paste.
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deegeecees

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2007, 02:28:09 PM »
You could conceivably go into the floor plan and change the BASE to where you need it. The word "Datum" comes to mind.
Interesting.  I will have to try that. 
This last job I had to move the floor plan ( It took me two days to come to that it was the lesser of two evils) and I paid for it every step since then. 

I've done this countless times with plant layouts, substation layouts, etc. The command "BASE" in AutoCad can be very useful, as well as "SCALE-->REFERENCE" for "aligning" floor plans/civil data and what-not, I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Krushert

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2007, 03:58:36 PM »
You could conceivably go into the floor plan and change the BASE to where you need it. The word "Datum" comes to mind.
Interesting.  I will have to try that. 
This last job I had to move the floor plan ( It took me two days to come to that it was the lesser of two evils) and I paid for it every step since then. 

I've done this countless times with plant layouts, substation layouts, etc. The command "BASE" in AutoCad can be very useful, as well as "SCALE-->REFERENCE" for "aligning" floor plans/civil data and what-not, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
I have used Base for cleaning up of new created blocks, but never thought of using it on xrefs, which are really blocks.

Aaaaahhhhh the reference option.  Half my user did not how to use that option.  Tisk, Tisk.
I + XI = X is true ...  ... if you change your perspective.

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jonesy

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2007, 08:03:10 AM »
Can I change my original post on how "we" do it... it seems some people here also use the electronic dart method... I've just come across one where the drawing is 1000's of metres out from where it should be... at least I think they should be... now to try to work out which of the drawings have the correct 0,0. What a royal PITA :x
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

daron

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2007, 08:47:11 AM »
Well, in the past if I had to update an xref and the new version had a different insbase variable than the first, I'd open the old drawing and draw a line from (getvar 'insbase), then snap the end point to a point on the house that is the same as on the new version. Then I'd copy the line using copybase and select the endpoint of the line (the part connected to the house. Then I'd paste the line into the new drawing using on the same point I copied it from. Finally, I could either set the insbase variable to the startpoint of the pasted line. This will set your xref in correctly.

CAB

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2007, 08:57:52 AM »
As deegeecees said, the command BASE can be very useful to solve the problem too.
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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2007, 09:33:22 AM »
We have (10) cad operators who base everything off 0,0 and (1) real drafter that uses 0,0 for the center of everything.
That way the world revolves around him.

Sorry couldn't resist :-o

Josh Nieman

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Re: How do you pick 0,0?
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2007, 12:58:34 PM »
We have (10) cad operators who base everything off 0,0 and (1) real drafter that uses 0,0 for the center of everything.
That way the world revolves around him.

Sorry couldn't resist :-o

that made me laugh