Author Topic: ( C3D '08 ) Book  (Read 19269 times)

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Dent Cermak

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2007, 06:54:09 PM »

I've been using my real name here and other places for more than 4 years without problems.

Mark Thomas is a good name to have when using your real name.  Unfortunately, there is only one person listed in the US white pages with my name :)


Yours is not as unique as mine by any means and I have NEVER had the problems you relate. I guess you have to really have answers to grt phone calls? I've always found cute screen names to be a little paranoid. One assumes someone else wouls stalk you because you are so very interesting.  Some of us never have that problem. ^-^

M-dub

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2007, 06:56:28 PM »
Yeah, look up Mike Williams and see what you find.

Of course, if you read my many posts in here, you'd be able to find me with ease, but if you're new, it might be like finding a needle in a haystack.

mjfarrell

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2007, 08:29:22 PM »

No, you said some of our best practices were stupid- like erasing TIN lines or some such. 

I was not aware a link to the swamp was left out.

Not a 'best practice' that I was critiquing.  The example come in the form of the Surface Editing command descriptions where it is suggested that the user should delete TIN lines from within a building area or a pond. This information is totally wrong practice. One should NEVER delete tin lines from the interior of a surface model. There are other means that do not damage the integrity of the surface model. As there will be and should be TIN lines defining the building footprint. Those faces simply must remain. In the case of a pond, one could debate a need to remove them, given that the surveyors had collected the pond bottom elevations. Otherwise how could one calculate the volume of fill required to fill in the pond? Given one could get the permits to do so. If you want to call a wrong practice 'stupid' O.K. by me.

And there was no link to The Swamp included.  (Have you actually read the book that has your name on it??)
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

scout

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2007, 08:01:19 AM »

No, you said some of our best practices were stupid- like erasing TIN lines or some such. 

I was not aware a link to the swamp was left out.

Not a 'best practice' that I was critiquing.  The example come in the form of the Surface Editing command descriptions where it is suggested that the user should delete TIN lines from within a building area or a pond. This information is totally wrong practice. One should NEVER delete tin lines from the interior of a surface model. There are other means that do not damage the integrity of the surface model. As there will be and should be TIN lines defining the building footprint. Those faces simply must remain. In the case of a pond, one could debate a need to remove them, given that the surveyors had collected the pond bottom elevations. Otherwise how could one calculate the volume of fill required to fill in the pond? Given one could get the permits to do so. If you want to call a wrong practice 'stupid' O.K. by me.

And there was no link to The Swamp included.  (Have you actually read the book that has your name on it??)

I didn't write that particular chapter, and I agree with you in theory about keeping the integrity of the surface intact.  However, when the firms I work with come forward and ask me the question about building pads, and they want to remove the contours from within the footprint because their jurisdiction will not allow them to show contours through the building, I run through the usual options such as, add a featureline to represent finished floor so you have a true model. or try a mask or wipeout, etc etc. many of those solutions are just not terribly satisfying to clients and they would rather delete the TIN lines.

So while deleting TIN lines may not be the best possible solution, it is indeed a typical use in practice for the delete TIN lines option.

Also note that that the offensive "stupid practice" as you say is mentioned in one small line on page 140 as an example of why you might use the delete line tool.  It isn't a full blown sidebar highlighting this as a must-do technique.

While we all wish everyone was fully leveraging their 3D tools, there are still plenty of people who need to figure out real ways to get their work done.

The book is taken from us and goes through about four levels of editing.  We don't even get to see where the images wind up until the very end.  The first time I had access to the entire book was when mine was delivered to me in early October- two weeks after the birth of my son. I wrote about 400 pages of it, so I've read those over and over and over again over the past 8 months. The rest of the book- I am still reading it.  I am on page 323. It's pretty hard to hold a 800 page book while nursing a newborn and taking care of a 3 year old, but I'll get there.

Mark

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2007, 12:15:40 PM »
Quote from: scout
It's pretty hard to hold a 800 page book while nursing a newborn and taking care of a 3 year old, but I'll get there.

Congratulations on the birth of your latest family addition. I used to "surf the net" whilst bottle feeding my son in the evenings after work. :-)

Apologies for the tangent.
TheSwamp.org  (serving the CAD community since 2003)

mjfarrell

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2007, 01:13:16 PM »
Perhaps we have more work to do in training persons on properly modeling their surfaces. Properly done contour lines will not cross a building pad. Think about it; even IF the pad elevation is EXACTLY at a contour interval say 1250, the 1250 contour will not cross the pad it will in fact inscribe the pad perimeter and there will be nothing to erase or mask. Even IF one is using 0.1, or other intervals or other increments the contour will not cross a properly modeled surface.


And 'scout' I asked all to go read my post again, YOU are the one using the word stupid to describe the practice, not me.  I did not use that word, go read it again slowly. 
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

scout

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2007, 01:36:01 PM »
Scout was my screen name in college and lately I've felt pretty old.  Maybe I was looking to reclaim my youth?

Dinosaur

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2007, 01:55:09 PM »
Scout was my screen name in college . . .
Not "UGA"?  :evil:

scout

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2007, 02:09:45 PM »
Perhaps we have more work to do in training persons on properly modeling their surfaces. Properly done contour lines will not cross a building pad. Think about it; even IF the pad elevation is EXACTLY at a contour interval say 1250, the 1250 contour will not cross the pad it will in fact inscribe the pad perimeter and there will be nothing to erase or mask. Even IF one is using 0.1, or other intervals or other increments the contour will not cross a properly modeled surface.


I wholeheartedly agree with you.  The trouble is that many users aren't so much required to model the building pad as the grading around the building pad, and since that is sometimes at odd elevations at each corner (like garages and walkouts), you wind up with contours going through what the review agency sees as "the building" and that doesnt make sense to them. So yes, the users need to just add another feature line or other such to get the surface to truly represent what they need.

Since the TIN cannot have a vertical edge, the featureline must be offset the min (0.01ft) amount. If the true pad or ff is 2ft or more above the outside grade, you get a stack of close contours btwn the two feature lines.

in the case of basements or vert sided ponds, those stacked contours may have depression ticks that further ugly things up.

Users get frustrated and would rather just delete the tin instead of spending the extra time to make flat building pad feature lines that give an unattractive result.  In some subdivisions, that can be hundreds of houses.


mjfarrell

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2007, 09:14:54 PM »
There are  some residual 'cad' data the user left behind as he moved towards creating this site plan in a 3rd day exercise. However I think if he had used a tighter snap when creating the feature lines that would become the dock seawalls.

And this 'vertical' face issue has been asked to be fixed all the way back to Softdesk 6.3. These are the the type of problems-challenges that they should have placed way ahead of a 3d obit for what are most typically going to be PLAN labels in the label style composer.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 09:35:43 PM by mjfarrell »
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

scout

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2007, 09:17:30 AM »
There are  some residual 'cad' data the user left behind as he moved towards creating this site plan in a 3rd day exercise. However I think if he had used a tighter snap when creating the feature lines that would become the dock seawalls.


I downloaded it.  What would you like me to look at? I'm lost.

scout

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2007, 09:17:59 AM »
Scout was my screen name in college . . .
Not "UGA"?  :evil:
you'd best be kidding.

mjfarrell

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2007, 10:17:33 AM »
There are some residual 'cad' data the user left behind as he moved towards creating this site plan in a 3rd day exercise. However I think if he had used a tighter snap when creating the feature lines that would become the dock seawalls.


I downloaded it.  What would you like me to look at? I'm lost.

That there is nothing to see.  Thanks for the discussion!  I think we just found a unique solution to this pesky problem. !  :-D !
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

sinc

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2007, 10:26:37 AM »
And this 'vertical' face issue has been asked to be fixed all the way back to Softdesk 6.3. These are the the type of problems-challenges that they should have placed way ahead of a 3d obit for what are most typically going to be PLAN labels in the label style composer.

I suspect we have 3D-orbits in the label style composer out of laziness.  They already had an object viewer that did 3D-Orbits, so it was probably less work to reuse the object viewer code for the label style composer.  I suspect it might have been more work for them to disable the 3D-orbit rather than leave it in.

But I agree about the vertical-face thing.  I haven't tried doing it, but it seems like there must be some algorithm that can handle volume calcs even if there are true vertical faces, even if it is slower.  A slower-but-better algorithm may not have been a good choice once-upon-a-time, when it would take 8 hours of churning for CAD to generate contours for a moderately-sized surface, but I would think it would be possible now.

If nothing else, it would have been nice if they had designed Corridors so that they can handle vertical faces in subassemblies, because it is a pain dealing with this issue all the time when creating custom subassemblies...

Dinosaur

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Re: ( C3D '08 ) Book
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2007, 10:48:59 AM »
Scout was my screen name in college . . .
Not "UGA"?  :evil:
you'd best be kidding.
:lol: Of course I was kidding . . . but I'd bet you wouldn't have to wait in line for it on your campus.
College rivalries . . . one of the best parts of campus life!  :lmao: