Author Topic: Leading zeros  (Read 21619 times)

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Keith™

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2007, 08:55:20 AM »
I can't, but that is the whole point ... but I can make one that shows 0o-0'-9" or just plain 9" therefore, if the code can already display or not display a prepended zero, why can they not have the option to have them for all objects?
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Dinosaur

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2007, 09:20:44 AM »
Keith, the problem with Civil 3D specifically is that these labels are not text entities.  They are instead part of the object being labeled.  There are text components to these labels that retrieve selected data from the drawing database to complete the variable parts of the label.  They could be considered highly goosed up associative dimensions that can include just about every property attached to the part.  The root of the zeros problem could be as simple as the referenced cell number formatting in the database.

sinc

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2007, 12:12:28 PM »
AFAICT no one ever posted a question regarding the leading 0 for C3D prior to about 6 months ago. Not in the basic C3D group, nor the customization, nor the wishes. Peter Funk HAS replied in the wishes group that this has been added as feature to be included in a future release.

This shouldn't have been necessary.  If Autodesk is really the industry leader it claims to be, it should be well aware of the fact that the leading zero is practically universal in the industry.  The fact that Land Desktop has ALWAYS had the leading zero is some indication that they are aware of this fact.  So why didn't it make it into C3D?

Similarly, using delimiters in numbers (e.g., "105,000" instead of "105000") is pretty universal, too, and C3D is also incapable of THAT, unless the user jumps through obnoxious hoops.  All these hoops may not be "difficult" per se, but when users constantly need to locate and identify hoops to jump through, the net result is software that is not easy to use.

As far as JP's argument that the US market is saturated with Autodesk's products and therefore not worthy of their attention, that greatly disturbs me...  Not really because I disagree with it, but because I fear it might actually be right, and that bodes poorly for the future...    :?

Keith™

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2007, 12:16:52 PM »
As far as JP's argument that the US market is saturated with Autodesk's products and therefore not worthy of their attention, that greatly disturbs me...  Not really because I disagree with it, but because I fear it might actually be right, and that bodes poorly for the future...    :?

Do you mean as "what do we care, you have already committed to buy our stuff, why should we fix it" or something else?
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mjfarrell

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2007, 02:56:23 PM »
Yes Kieth, that seems to be exactly Autodesks attitude on this.
The underlying culprit is the SUBSERVIENT, uh oops Subscription program.
Why would the company ever care if the application works if they already have your money?
They wont, and don't care because the largest user base, i.e. the Government agencies bought into this as a good idea.
Further others (IT managers) also bought into the idea that the subscription was a cost saving idea.  This is probably the biggest argument that ended in my being banned from the augi website simply because I argued against it being of value to the end user.  As you can see 4-5 years into the subscription program the end user has to put up with whatever autodesk puts out. Take it or leave it. 

The problem is only bound to get worse.  Recently some of my clients have been getting what appear to be Threatening Collection letters from Service Source Inc.  This company has been hired by autodesk to hound customers into renewing the subscription. To further distance itself from the end users, those users will not even be contacted by the local vendor in this regard.  They have been reduced to new software sales and training and support.

IMO, it is never a good idea put money up front for a product or service that you can not evaluate for yourself prior to purchase. 

To prove that point, I want every one to send me $20 for a pizza right now.  Once I have your money, do I care if the pizza is edible, or even large enough to ease your appetite?  NO!  For that matter the 'pizza' might simply be a GIF image that you can print, but not eat.  So, c'mon folks send me those Twenties, and I'll get them pizzas right out to you. :angel: Honest.
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Michael Farrell
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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2007, 03:48:09 PM »
I dunno 'bout you guys but .....

I think it's a trick.

sinc

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #51 on: August 15, 2007, 04:30:53 PM »
What's a trick?  Mike's offer?  Or Autodesk's?   :evil:

jpostlewait

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2007, 08:13:38 PM »
My firm has subscription agreements with a host of vendors.
Microsoft, McAfee, Bentley, Symantec, etc. etc.
Just the way business works these days.
As long as you only run a product under a license agreement you are at the mercy of the license grantor.
I'm not wild about it and I know they have our business by the scrotum but what is the alternative?
You can go the "freeware route" .
Might very well be the way to go in your situation.
But if you produce a product with electronic submittal qualifications you have to produce something with the mainstream products.
No judgements from me as to is this right or wrong, just how it is.
Just my job to use the system efficiently.

mjfarrell

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2007, 08:28:24 PM »
yes, and no

subscription systems take the burden of the software vendor to produce a product that the market will pay for, or perform the task as the end user needs them performed.  With a subscription in place they have no need to be responsive to the customers as they already have your money. 
 

The solutions as I see it; every single customer needs to Just SAY NO for a short time and the subscription program will be revised, amended, or ended as they see this revenue stream dry up.  The benefit of the subscription isn't for the user; clearly it is for the vendor of the product.


I notice you didn't subscribe for a pizza sight unseen now did you?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2007, 08:30:39 PM by mjfarrell »
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Michael Farrell
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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2007, 08:33:22 PM »
Yeah.  I'm still waiting for that.

What is the customer service number?

Dinosaur

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2007, 08:39:15 PM »
Strangest thing, I got two . . . thanks Mav! . . . guess it pays to know the management

mjfarrell

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2007, 08:55:24 PM »
Yeah.  I'm still waiting for that.

What is the customer service number?

Customer Service number; that would be the Error Reporting Function, did you send an error report?

Oh, did I forget to tell you we 'only' ship those pizza's to you USP port?

So you will need to upgrade your hardware in order to get the pizza.
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Michael Farrell
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jpostlewait

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2007, 09:18:28 PM »
yes, and no

subscription systems take the burden of the software vendor to produce a product that the market will pay for, or perform the task as the end user needs them performed.  With a subscription in place they have no need to be responsive to the customers as they already have your money. 
 

The solutions as I see it; every single customer needs to Just SAY NO for a short time and the subscription program will be revised, amended, or ended as they see this revenue stream dry up.  The benefit of the subscription isn't for the user; clearly it is for the vendor of the product.


I notice you didn't subscribe for a pizza sight unseen now did you?

Dream on dude.
Just saying no costs the same as staying with your favorite version and then upgrading later.
Plus more and more products are not available without subscription.
Just how it is.

mjfarrell

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2007, 09:28:05 PM »
Right up until the majority of the customer base tells the vendor NO we will not buy the product IF we are forced to subscribe to it, then we will not purchase it.  As the vendors fail to meet the sales quota, the question will be asked "why aren't are customers buying?"  The answer will be clear and the forced  subscription will end. 

All it takes is some backbone.  The cost of a faulty product is far outweighed by paying whatever it might cost to get the manufacturer of said software to be responsive to the end users.

Really tell me how much money have you lost with you implementation of this product including the consulting cost minus your advertising fees?  And how much money do you save on a product that you can't or don't use? 
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Michael Farrell
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Dinosaur

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Re: Leading zeros
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2007, 09:42:08 PM »
I would think that number would have more TRAILING ZEROS instead of LEADING ZEROS.

You both have good points . . .

I know the single major obstacle for my firm going full speed into the Autodesk Upgrade netherworld is the subscription system.  My boss MAY reluctantly pull his wallet to buy the 3 or 4 seats of Civil 3D we need but it just hits him VERY wrong to put out that money to "subscribe" to any software title.  He has had 3rd degree burns from software vendors before and he is being one tough sell.  The same goes for training - at best a 10% chance of seeing anything.

I also know Autodesk can have their way with us at any time they choose.  We can't do one effective thing to stop them and any thoughts of even getting breakfast in the morning are just laughable.

carp . . . I would still appreciate some Bentley info John.