Author Topic: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .  (Read 7027 times)

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Dinosaur

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2007, 08:21:46 PM »
Holy Cats! You both have so much room to work with!

In the subdivision I'm working on now, I could fit about 2-3 lots into each one of those. All curves must be annotated with Radius, Delta & Length; except when there are multiple lots, then the overall RDL is shown with only the D & L shown for each internal arc.

I have not yet had to create the plat for this project, but I'll post it once I do.

Yes, I do have some room on this one, but only because there was no way to fit the boundary on a 100 scale.  Otherwise I would be wedging in all of the still missing easement call outs into 40% less free space.

sinc

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2007, 10:33:55 PM »
Hey sinc.
Where are the setback lines and U/E easements?
Just have to hate the ahole that invented the cul-de-sac.

Well, around here, we don't show setbacks on plats - those are on the development plans only, and the engineer does them.  And after repeated requests, I have still not gotten an answer as to what we need for lot easements.  This is in a new unincorporated area outside of town, and I don't think there's a "typical" for the area yet.  I'm hoping that it ends up being like some of them, where it's 10' all around the lot, and I can get by with a simple note on the title page instead of drawing them all on.  Probably too much to hope for.  But in any case, I can't draw them until I know what they are.

And that leads to another joy of Parcels - for curve text, the background mask is not behind the text.  So if I have to draw the lot easements, I'm going to have to go in and add a bunch of wipeouts behind all the curve text.  Joy oh joy.

Dinosaur

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2007, 10:40:05 PM »
. . . And that leads to another joy of Parcels - for curve text, the background mask is not behind the text.  So if I have to draw the lot easements, I'm going to have to go in and add a bunch of wipeouts behind all the curve text.  Joy oh joy.

Yet another plus for the general label option - you can choose for yourself about the masking.  I know you are getting some benefit by using them with your staking routine, but have you found any other compelling reason to use them?

sinc

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2007, 10:51:18 PM »
Yet another plus for the general label option - you can choose for yourself about the masking.  I know you are getting some benefit by using them with your staking routine, but have you found any other compelling reason to use them?

Well, with the spanning labels, I don't have any duplicate linework.  All the parcel lines you see are the only lines there.  For the road centerlines, however, I used plain lines and arcs.  Therefore, I have two copies of the linework.  One copy of the linework has unbroken segments and can be used to label overall distances, and the other contains linework that is broken at every intersection, like what happens with the Break Crossing Objects option in Map Cleanup.

And of course, Parcel Labels can be turned into tags and added to Line/Curve tables, which auto-update if the linework should change.

If you aren't using Parcels, how are you doing your lot area annotations?  Are you using Map Topologies?  That's what we used to do in LDT.

Dinosaur

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2007, 11:27:37 PM »
Old school for the areas - just find the area of the polyline.  Every city in our area has different ideas regarding how much information besides the lot number needs to be included (sometimes as many as 5 different items) so I just make a complex chunk of mtext with the information requested and place it at the centroid.  I did wind up with all of those bounding polylines that I put on a frozen and locked layer but only a few extra lines in odd places beyond that.  I almost like the idea of having that layout hidden and preserved just in case someone does something "unwise" and a quick grip edit will update the labels to conform with any changes made to the layout that are intentional.
My procedure after isolating the lot line layer was to run bpoly in a lot, add my default label styles with the multiple option (this also defaults the location to the course midpoint), erase any I don't need change any styles I don't want to be default, flip and reverse as necessary.  Then I move the bpoly to a frozen layer and go to the next lot.  I also used MAP to locate the centroids, but I didn't like some of those results.  I could do some of this with topologies, but needing addresses, minimum floor elevations and occasional floodplain information in some combination, it gets easier to just do it with primitives.  I am hoping these chunks of mtext will work well in 2008's scaling text and rotation features.  At present, all of this labeling appears only in my final plat.

sinc

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2007, 08:18:43 AM »
Yep, that is an old-school approach.

Parcels would probably make all that easier, but at the cost of fighting the labels.  It's a trade-off.  There's a way to add custom properties to Parcels, but I haven't tried playing with it yet.  I *think* it would work for all the extra pieces of information you're talking about - then you could edit that information for all Parcels in Toolspace.

But even without using Parcels, I think you could use Map Topologies to speed up your current procedure.  If you turn your linework into a polygon topology, you can do "Create closed polylines" to create a closed polyline around every lot all at once.  No need to run BPOLY on every lot.

I understand what you mean about annotations.  They're pretty clunky compared to C3D labels with reference text.  But you could conceivably use Object Data to attach all the information to the centroid, and then use a Map Annotation to label each lot.  Editing Object Data isn't the most-pleasant task, but it would allow you to use Map Annotations to label all lots at once.  That's useful, because it helps  prevent errors.  If you change your parcel layout, you can simply update the annotations (or delete and recreate them), and you know they're all up-to-date.

Parcels are similar to using Map Topologies and Annotations, except everything auto-updates as you edit items.  This is a mixed-blessing - editing Parcel linework has a tendency to renumber lots and do funky things to existing labels, so it's not the best.  But with Map topologies, the easiest way to do significant edits is to delete the Topology, change the linework, and then recreate the Topology.  So in some ways Parcels are like new-and-improved Map topologies.

But Parcels cannot autodetect and warn you about gaps, overshoots, etc., like Map topologies do.  Parcels happily use bad linework to create what look like Parcels, but aren't right.  The joys of Autodesk software - we have nifty Parcels that are easier to edit than topologies but are "stupid", we have Map topologies that are smart enough to detect problems in linework but aren't the easiest thing to use, and the two things are incompatible with each other.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 11:22:43 AM by sinc »

Dinosaur

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2007, 08:33:42 AM »
Thanks sinc, that is a lot of stuff to consider for the next attempt.  More than anything, I was pleased to see a complex plat annotated where I didn't have to hold my nose and just accept some stuff I was not happy with.  I have noticed one very annoying thing, however - every blasted label I placed via multi did not survive migration to 2008 regardless if they were in a dragged state or not when I checked it out on my trial version.  I was not really surprised but COME ON AUTODESK  :realmad:
This project can easily stretch out over 3 or 4 years.  Am I going to have to keep every old generation of the program on my computer to make sure I can work on older projects?

sinc

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2007, 06:03:10 PM »
All right, there are at least SOME advantages to using C3D Parcels...

I had all that labeling done, then we find out that they want to increase the width of the Tract along the north side from 30' to 50'.  In Land Desktop, that would have been a ton of work, taking hours.  In C3D, I was able to revise all the lots along the north edge (approx. 40 lots) in less than 20 minutes.  The results are shown.  All areas, line labels, etc. updated pretty-much automatically.

It wasn't completely seamless - several of my labels got reset from flipped and/or reversed status, and had to be fixed.  Some labels moved to bad locations, like the endpoints of parcel segments, and had to be moved.  And of course, some of the parcels renumbered themselves, and I had to fix the parcel numbering.  But I probably saved a good six hours compared to the same task in Land Desktop.  That isn't enough to offset all the extra time spent putting the labels in to start with, but it counts for something.   :wink:

And then I found out we need 7' front, 5' side, and 10' rear utility easements in the lots.  But the POS routine (aka PARCELOFFSET) in my SincpacC3D made those go relatively quickly.  At some point, I need to add the capability of drawing lot easements in many lots at once, as opposed to one at a time.  But it still goes pretty fast.  Then, of course, I had to go and put wipeouts behind the labels that use curve text, since C3D Labels don't place curved text correctly, and the text is not on top of the background mask.  That's probably more work than getting the easement lines drawn.

mjfarrell

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2007, 09:00:56 AM »
Good work Gentlemen.  Keep up the fight! 
You will notice that even the 'guest' writer of a Civil 3D article in AUGI World isn't exactly enthusiastic about 2008 and/or Autodesk's missing a chance to really improve it.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

sinc

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2007, 11:13:52 AM »
I've said before that at the rate they're going, C3D will be "out of beta" in 2014 or so.  And I hope I'm not being overly-optimistic...   :cry:

MMccall

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2007, 11:24:28 AM »
2014  :-o    That'll be right around the time they release the beta of their new Civil/Survey software product and begin the reinvention all over again.   :ugly:

jpostlewait

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2007, 07:32:22 PM »
Couple of observations along this line.
Our former IT manager had a sign on his wall that said simply,

If it works, it's obsolete.

Same guy told me "It's all Beta"

It's a journey not a destination. That's mine.

The web makes this doable if you have the time and are willing to commit the effort to make this pile of stuff work.
This is one resource, there are many.
I run into several of you in other locations and we all need to visit them nearly daily.


sinc

  • Guest
Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2007, 09:46:39 AM »

If it works, it's obsolete.

Same guy told me "It's all Beta"


Yeah, except it's not true.  Quality of sofware has to do with the caliber of the development effort.  I've seen plenty of cutting-edge software that works great, just not from Microsoft or Autodesk.

And I'm not talking about software for Mac or Unix systems.  I've even seen some on Windows, although the design of the OS makes it more-diffifcult to create.  Take Sonar, for example.  This extremely-elaborate, cutting-edge piece of software is designed for professional audio work, and can also be used to synchornize audio with video (for soundtrack production).  It has almost no bugs, even though it is designed to work with Windows systems that have ANY mix of hardware and software.  Versions put out for the last two years have worked with both Windows XP-64 AND Vista (assuming you can find drivers for your soundcard and video card).  People are using Sonar 5 - the version that came out nearly two years ago - on Vista with no problems.  And it runs in 64-bit mode, not in the Windows-XP32 compatibility mode.

Some companies were able to have soundcard drivers ready for Vista before Vista was released.  Others still don't have them out.  So it DOES seem as though SOME companies have been working on Vista drivers for years, but not very many.  Maybe Microsoft did an early-release of API information to a few "special" companies that they really like, and left others hanging?  I really have no idea.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 09:48:28 AM by sinc »

MickD

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Re: Something Is Missing From My Desktop . . .
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2007, 05:58:04 PM »
IRT to Sonar, I think it just has to do with good design Sinc, you know, good patterns and object definition with clear interfaces to make each object/part 'plug-able' for easy changes and expansion and maintenance.
Good software should be the sum of it's parts with each part doing a specific job and doing it well, a lot of software - particularly on the MS OS - is too tied together (UNIX uses the 'write many small app's and use them together' philosophy but because of the OS design this doesn't work so well in Windows), take one part out or modify it and you find it affects many other objects, that's bad design!
The worst part is, to fix it it seems they need to completely re-write it, it keeps your developers busy and it's good for business though I guess.
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