Author Topic: 6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.  (Read 8061 times)

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MP

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« on: June 27, 2004, 11:33:19 AM »
Thoughts? :) (edit: revised title)
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Slim©

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2004, 12:35:08 PM »
Going "Ten Commandments" on us now, eh?

But, very true, custom shapes (SHX) when you send drawings to others that need them are a pain to them, and to you when you recieve drawing you need.

It's best if you use them to limit them to Title Blocks and/or Logos.

Just my "2 cents".
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MP

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2004, 01:21:55 PM »
Quote from: Lance Pickens
Going "Ten Commandments" on us now, eh?

Yeah, maybe not such a good idea; I revised it.

Quote from: Lance Pickens
But, very true, custom shapes (SHX) when you send drawings to others that need them are a pain to them, and to you when you recieve drawing you need.

It's best if you use them to limit them to Tilte Blocks and/or Logos.

Just my "2 cents".

My experience, and I recognize everyone has their own, is that custom shape files represent a significant nightmare for anyone involved in preparing deliverables for clients, so where I assist in the managment of AutoCAD projects they are considered unacceptable despite the fact they might be useful; not negotiable. :)
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CADaver

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2004, 03:28:41 PM »
Quote from: Lance Pickens
Going "Ten Commandments" on us now, eh?

But, very true, custom shapes (SHX) when you send drawings to others that need them are a pain to them, and to you when you recieve drawing you need.
ETRANSMIT

Quote from: Lance Pickens
It's best if you use them to limit them to Title Blocks and/or Logos.
huh?  if you use them anywhere, might as well use them everywhere.  Why would limiting their use to logos and TBs be beneficial??

Keith™

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2004, 04:31:42 PM »
No way..... I use many different custom SHX files, and quite honestly, as CADaver pointed out... ETRANSMIT ... PACKNGO or whatever it is called in the version you are using. Using that rational, we should use ONLY the AutoCAD standard defined fonts as well, since a recipient may not have that font loaded.
If I send you a file I will have all of the fonts, SHX and other items needed to correctly view and plot that file.
Why on earth would you want to LIMIT the abilities of a person doing drawings. I use custom linetypes for everything from handrails to tongue & groove flooring (sectional) each with their custom shx files embedded,  and I have found it to be both easy AND much faster than simply drawing everything longhand ....
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MP

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2004, 04:41:56 PM »
Quote from: Keith
No way..... I use many different custom SHX files, and quite honestly, as CADaver pointed out... ETRANSMIT ... PACKNGO or whatever it is called in the version you are using. Using that rational, we should use ONLY the AutoCAD standard defined fonts as well, since a recipient may not have that font loaded.
If I send you a file I will have all of the fonts, SHX and other items needed to correctly view and plot that file.
Why on earth would you want to LIMIT the abilities of a person doing drawings. I use custom linetypes for everything from handrails to tongue & groove flooring (sectional) each with their custom shx files embedded,  and I have found it to be both easy AND much faster than simply drawing everything longhand ....

I'm going to play devil's advocate here ... yes, use only the standard AutoCAD fonts, styles, shapes ad nauseum; that way they will always appear correctly on target machines without worry of sending companion shx files etc, as well as not having to concern oneself with copyright issues (which a lot of firms conveniently do not consider -- has your client paid for compugrafix etc. I ask rhetorhically?) ...

PS - Sadly, that new logo is annoying -- it causing the texbox edit cursor cursor to flash as it cycles thru animation frames.
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Keith™

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2004, 04:47:23 PM »
Quote from: MP
I'm going to play devil's advocate here ... yes, use only the standard AutoCAD fonts, styles, shapes ad nauseum; that way they will always appear correctly on target machines without worry of sending companion shx files etc, as well as not having to concern oneself with copyright issues (which a lot of firms conveniently do not consider -- has your client paid for compugrafix etc. I ask rhetorhically?) ...


For our company it is a non-issue all of the custom shx files (including shapes AND textstyles) were developed in house, meaning I developed them under the leadership of the client (my boss). We defined them to use because of their ease, and speed, and will gladly share them to others that migh utilize our drawings.
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MP

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2004, 05:08:50 PM »
Quote from: Keith
Quote from: MP
I'm going to play devil's advocate here ... yes, use only the standard AutoCAD fonts, styles, shapes ad nauseum; that way they will always appear correctly on target machines without worry of sending companion shx files etc, as well as not having to concern oneself with copyright issues (which a lot of firms conveniently do not consider -- has your client paid for compugrafix etc. I ask rhetorhically?) ...


For our company it is a non-issue all of the custom shx files (including shapes AND textstyles) were developed in house, meaning I developed them under the leadership of the client (my boss). We defined them to use because of their ease, and speed, and will gladly share them to others that migh utilize our drawings.

I'm not discounting the value and utility custom shapes etc. offer, to witt, I've made my own shape files for custom linetypes etc. (love those hex codes), but in my experience, the benefits have been HIGHLY dwarfed by the detriments, but admittedly, ours is a different camp from the discussions I've seen here.

The only absolute I'd say, and this goes for the bulk of these topics / issues, if your standard clearly identifies the use of shapes etc. as acceptable (c/w proper procedure and implementation etc.) there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and arguing to the contrary is completely ludicrous. My client's spec may state all drawings will utilize purple polka dotted base models, and dang it, it better happen in all drawings or I'm going to find and take issue with you! This despite the fact that my experience suggests the polka dots should ALWAYS be yellow pacman shapes!
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CADaver

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2004, 05:28:47 PM »
Quote from: MP
... the benefits have been HIGHLY dwarfed by the detriments, ...
Which detriment would those be??  (I'm speaking specifically of linetype shapes)

MP

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2004, 05:46:17 PM »
Quote from: CADaver
Which detriment would those be??  (I'm speaking specifically of linetype shapes)

To put it succinctly, distribution, redistribution, external dependencies and document management systems.
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CADaver

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2004, 08:21:33 PM »
Quote from: MP
Quote from: CADaver
Which detriment would those be??  (I'm speaking specifically of linetype shapes)

To put it succinctly, distribution, redistribution, external dependencies and document management systems.
hmmm... so you don't use XREFs for the very same reasons??

MP

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2004, 08:28:20 PM »
Quote from: CADaver
hmmm... so you don't use XREFs for the very same reasons??

You have amazing capacity for linear thought. :)
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CADaver

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2004, 09:10:02 PM »
Quote from: MP
Quote from: CADaver
hmmm... so you don't use XREFs for the very same reasons??

You have amazing capacity for linear thought. :)
Nice dodge.

Xref's have the very same"distribution, redistribution, external dependencies and document management systems" problems as SHAPES.  If one tool is avoided for those reasons, why not the other??

BTW, according to DeBono that was low-level lateral thought based on cognitive association of past experiential data.  Now had you said "Yes, for the same reasons", that would have been linear thought, but that's a whole nuther thread.

Keith™

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2004, 09:25:23 PM »
CADaver my sentiment exactly...
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MP

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6. Custom shape (SHX) files will not be used.
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2004, 02:35:15 AM »
Quote from: CADaver
Xref's have the very same"distribution, redistribution, external dependencies and document management systems" problems as SHAPES.  If one tool is avoided for those reasons, why not the other??

First, sorry for the snippy "capacity" comment on my part; reading it now it doesn't seem as friendly as when I penned it.

You are correct that they sport the same characteristics with regards to distribution et. al. The difference is that separate modeling (xrefing) is an absolute necessary evil to manage large scale, multi discipline projects (as you know). While it poses real headaches in the areas noted above (and sadly I have more experience than I want in this regard) there is no practical alternative that I have seen.

Shape files on the other hand are not an absolute necessity (imo). Further, when shape files are not resolved correctly they can be far nastier to deal with. Real world example, and I encountered this in the last week. We are co-consultants on a huge project. We have received a couple hundred models from the other camp. All of the civil drawings were create using third party software from a "reputable software vendor". Said software employed custom shape files. Of course, the operators don't necessarilly know this as the program's documentation isn't thorough enough to mention this, or it is buried on page 927, let alone the folks in the other camp's document control department who supplied us the models. So we don't have the custom shape files. Now then, any time we open a document that refers to one of these offending models the dialog below appears:



Seems benign enough right? Wrong. It appears for every single instance of the reference to the unresolved shape file; typically in the thousands, so you have to lean on the escape key for 10 minutes or so. Once AutoCAD comes up for air it does not reveal the name of the unresolved shape file, so you have to write code to walk the database, find the unresolved shape references, compile a list, talk to the other camp ...

... should we have to endure this avoidable nonsense?

Certainly a lot more can be written on this topic but too many posts, too little time! I should have been snoring a half hour ago! :)
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