Author Topic: Dimensions shall be kept fully associative  (Read 13079 times)

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CADaver

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2004, 03:49:23 PM »
Quote from: yyou
T-It is a matter of choices.  I do it my way because if you break the rule of associated dim why not just explode it and put in the symbol without violate another rule, dim in PS.
A dim in MS or PS will not promote an error, and exploded dimension <shiver> will.



Quote from: yyou
I'm not sure how the definition of associated dim state.  But my understanding is if a dimension has one piece in MS and another in PS then it is a non-associative.
The dimensions remains associative, you've merely added and additional annotation object.  You're reaching again.  The addition, or deletion of the additional annotation object will not lead to a construction error, non-associative, or editted dims can.

t-bear

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2004, 04:09:02 PM »
Yyou... This could go on forever (it HAS in other forums) but I can not.  You are welcome to do as you please with your dims. Just keep in mind that associative dims are a VERY good way to check your model. associative doms will quickly show you if you have improperly constructed your model.  They don't lie.  Of course if you are working on a single piece, I guess you COULD just draw any old thing that has the general shape of the piece you are defining (called "Cartooning") and edit the dimensions to match what that object SHOULD be.  HOWEVER.... if you are ever required to place that object in conjunction with other parts, it's gonna reach out and bite your a**. A board drafter could get away with that kind of drafting ... with the power of todays CADD programs there is (again, in my opinion, take it as you may) no earthly excuse for slip-shod, inacurate drafting.  Draft it right or don't draft at all........  My employer is a small "hill-billy" company in the Ozark hills of Missouri and that kind of work will quickly find you the door.



Crap!  I just re-read this and .... I'm starting to sound like CADaver! [shudder!]

CADaver

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2004, 05:32:12 PM »
Quote from: t-bear
Crap!  I just re-read this and .... I'm starting to sound like CADaver! [shudder!]
As I read it I thought, gee that's sounds familiar.  Don't worry, Bear, you have a ways to go yet.

yyou

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2004, 05:46:27 PM »
I totally agree that dim should be associated.  I don't think there is anyone would have non-associated dim as the standard.  However, there are exceptions to all standards.  You can dim in Ms or Ps, I have no problem with it.  I do concern of having dim in both PS & MS in a same dwg.

I have seen quite a few doors during my career.  Because to me, the best way to go up is out.

CADaver

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2004, 11:16:56 PM »
Quote from: yyou
I totally agree that dim should be associated.  I don't think there is anyone would have non-associated dim as the standard.  However, there are exceptions to all standards.  
Not here, not about dims anyway.


Quote from: yyou
You can dim in Ms or Ps, I have no problem with it.  I do concern of having dim in both PS & MS in a same dwg.
We don't, but I'd do that long before fudging or exploding a dim.  Fudging and exploding can and do cause errors.

yyou

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2004, 12:11:39 PM »
Cadaver, No exception? Really?

Quote
There are case where the <> are entirly replaced with a note of some kind like "FOR THIS AREA SEE ENLARGED PLAN BELOW" or something.


Remember that? I believe those were your words.

I do not see any issue about "whether we straight a line should be made up of many segments or 1 single line"  Why?  Because it is obvious, nobody is going to argue about it. In this case, if there is no exception, then it is an obvious routine, then this topic would not be here to debate.

I can see dim in both MS & PS can cause error but the non-assoc way.  Because there a many cases (include one of your own, see above) that dims were done non-assoc but I have not seen dim in both Ms & PS in a same dwg.

CADaver

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2004, 12:45:30 PM »
Quote from: yyou
Cadaver, No exception? Really?

Quote
There are case where the <> are entirly replaced with a note of some kind like "FOR THIS AREA SEE ENLARGED PLAN BELOW" or something.


Remember that? I believe those were your words.
I remember it quite well, that dim is associative and is neither fudged nor exploded, what's your point?


Quote from: yyou
Because there a many cases (include one of your own, see above) that dims were done non-assoc but I have not seen dim in both Ms & PS in a same dwg.
Again, the example above was an associative dim that was neither fudged nor exploded.  Fudging or exploding dims is not done, no exceptions.  Fudging or exploding dims cause errors.

yyou

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2004, 03:10:18 PM »
Cadaver

Quote
I remember it quite well, that dim is associative and is neither fudged nor exploded, what's your point?


"FOR THIS AREA SEE ENLARGED PLAN BELOW"  What units are you using?  I do not believe dim automatically give you that measurement.

I used that method in a government project.  I'd never heard any complaint or error for it.  But discipline would had been enforced if dims were not done in a same place.

CADaver

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2004, 03:46:32 PM »
Quote from: yyou
Cadaver

Quote
I remember it quite well, that dim is associative and is neither fudged nor exploded, what's your point?


"FOR THIS AREA SEE ENLARGED PLAN BELOW"  What units are you using?  I do not believe dim automatically give you that measurement.
Again, the dim is not fudged nor exploded.  Is English your native language?

Quote from: yyou
But discipline would had been enforced if dims were not done in a same place.
Which government?  Neither the DOD, NTA nor COE have regulations regarding the "space" of dims.

yyou

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2004, 05:52:14 PM »
Cadaver
Quote
Again, the dim is not fudged nor exploded

So the text came in automatically you did not type yourself.
 
Not only in miltary specs, but also in any oganization, you can dim either in MS or PS but not in both in a same dwg.

BTW, how is your definition of assoc dim? If I'm not wrong it is un-exploded.  What is an un-exploded object, block or dim?  It remains as 1 piece.  Not 2,  1 in ms and another in ps.

Kate M

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2004, 06:12:58 PM »
Quote from: yyou
So the text came in automatically you did not type yourself.

No, what CADaver means by "fudged" is typing 5'-6" when the dimension really reads 5'-5". REPLACING the text with WORDS (not other numbers) does NOT count as fudging. We do it all the time with "V.I.F." (verify in field) or "SEE ARCH".

As for the PS/MS question, in 2004 and beyond, PS dimensions can be associative, i.e. if you stretch the line in modelspace the dimension will stretch with it. In earlier versions, this was much harder (if not impossible) to accomplish.

CADaver

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2004, 07:48:52 PM »
Quote from: yyou
Cadaver
Quote
Again, the dim is not fudged nor exploded

So the text came in automatically you did not type yourself.
The content of the dimension remains accurate when stretched, it is neither fudged nor expolded.
 
Quote from: yyou
Not only in miltary specs, but also in any oganization, you can dim either in MS or PS but not in both in a same dwg.
Whose military, I'm looking at the DOD specs right now and there is no such restriction.

Quote from: yyou
how is your definition of assoc dim?
DIMASSOC greater than 0


Quote from: yyou
If I'm not wrong it is un-exploded.  
I guess you're wrong then.

Quote from: yyou
What is an un-exploded object, block or dim?  It remains as 1 piece.  Not 2,  1 in ms and another in ps.
"ANOTHER"?? another what? the break squiggle?  The dim remains associative, the break is an additional annotation element.

yyou

  • Guest
Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2004, 09:01:35 PM »
Cadaver
Quote
The content of the dimension remains accurate when stretched, it is neither fudged nor expolded

The dimension is at 15'-8".  Your text read "FOR THIS AREA....." Yeah, Very accurate.

Cadaver
Quote
I'm looking at the DOD specs right now and there is no such restriction.

So am I
Cadaver
Quote
DIMASSOC greater than 0

and has more than 1 pieces. Some pieces can be in MS and some can be in PS
Cadaver
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the break is an additional annotation element.

You create 2 vps then strech and and place the symbol in between.  What are all that work for?  Because you are trying to show the contractor, the client..and everybody that the break symbol and the dim line are 1 piece.  You are fudging so it looks like 1 assoc dim.   Annotation?  Geo tolerances are not dimensions, are they?

CADaver

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2004, 09:27:43 PM »
Quote from: yyou
Cadaver
Quote
The content of the dimension remains accurate when stretched, it is neither fudged nor expolded

The dimension is at 15'-8".  Your text read "FOR THIS AREA....." Yeah, Very accurate.
Yes it is, extremely accurate.

Quote from: yyou
Cadaver
Quote
I'm looking at the DOD specs right now and there is no such restriction.

So am I
Cool then you may quote the section and paragraph that poses the restriction.


Quote from: yyou
Cadaver
Quote
DIMASSOC greater than 0

and has more than 1 pieces.
No, and associative dim is a dimension element with a DIMASSOC value of 1 or 2, it is a single element.


Quote from: yyou
Cadaver
Quote
the break is an additional annotation element.

You create 2 vps then strech and and place the symbol in between.  What are all that work for?  Because you are trying to show the contractor, the client..and everybody that the break symbol and the dim line are 1 piece.  
It is an additional piece of annotational information just like the break line in the piece that is being dimensioned. That break is not part of the piece, it is an indication of a break.

Quote from: yyou
You are fudging so it looks like 1 assoc dim.  
No, the break symbol provides additional information.  Fudging would be stretching the piece to 12'-0", then changing the dimtext to read 15'-8"


Quote from: yyou
Geo tolerances are not dimensions, are they?
Yes, they are.

You can't really be this dim, can you?

Dent Cermak

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Dimensions shall be kept fully associative
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2004, 11:41:04 PM »
Yyou, you must learn. You are "dim" if you disagree with Cadaver on ANYTHING. Learn to say "Yes Master" and truck on. Even if his methods do not work in your shop.
Cadaver, lighten up. Your way works in your shop. it would not be allowed in my shop. I work a system that is integrated with several GPS programs, Intergraph and several other packages. That integration drives the way I do many things. I could , in no way, do my work in Vanilla AutoCad. They don't give me that much time and we do not have an in-house lisp wizard.  :lol:  8)
If you are looking to me for answers, you really have problems. Carlson Survey 2016 w/ Embedded AutoCad