Author Topic: 3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".  (Read 8911 times)

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MP

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« on: June 24, 2004, 05:58:16 PM »
Your thoughts?
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Mark

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2004, 06:08:11 PM »
No argument here!
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Slim©

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2004, 06:08:38 PM »
You've read my mind.
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Dent Cermak

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2004, 06:54:52 PM »
Nothing should be on layer 0 except "construction lines" or quickie sketches. Xref or dwg. I do my basic drawing on 0 because it shows up better. When I get my lines figured out, I switch them to the proper layer.
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MP

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2004, 07:14:20 PM »
I personally think "construction lines" or quickie sketches have no business on layer "0" either; inevitably someone will forget to move them to the correct layer.

Do it right the first time I say, it always costs more to fix it later. :)
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Dent Cermak

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2004, 07:16:49 PM »
Only if your drafters have "sometimers". Course, catching that is the job of the QC guy. Been doing it that way since 1988 and ain't missed one yet. It's all about paying attention to details. Now THAT is what drafting is really all about.
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MP

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2004, 07:25:20 PM »
I respectfully submit that such a tact may be easy to rally in smaller offices (which I'm getting the impression your type of office is, no dis meant), though small is such a relative term.

We have 250 +/- CADD Operators; probably a medium sized operation. The tactics you suggest are not practical when trying to corral this many cats. :)

Finally, relying on someone else to catch my errors, i.e. the QC guy, is not an efficient way to do things (scary actually, imagine if all of engineering did that :shock:), it costs more to go back to fix something, but that's just my opinion, your mileage and experience may vary. :)
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Dent Cermak

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2004, 07:31:41 PM »
So what we are saying is that "standards" will vary from discipline to discipline and also with the size of the office, especially with "control" issues.
In my shop, we generally have no need for paper space, in your shop it very well may be the most important tool you have. That needs to be kept in mind before any of us say, "Well, that's not right!!".
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Slim©

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2004, 07:38:27 PM »
Quote from: Dent Cermak
That needs to be kept in mind before any of us say, "Well, that's not right!!".


Excellent point, Dent. Sometimes we forget that the way we do things are what we are comfortable with, and are very difficult for other disciplines to follow.

What works very well for Civil does not always work for Survey.
What works well for Architectural wouldn't be practical for others.
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MP

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2004, 07:47:09 PM »
I esentially agree with all this stuff, especially the part where we keep it friendly, with open minds, and use the forum(s) as white boards to toss all our great ideas at (Mark's original intent me thinks). :)
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t-bear

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2004, 08:06:54 AM »
We draw NOTHING on "0" layer.....just our take on the subject.  My last employer used "0" as does Dents ...we had no problems.  Of course, like Dent, it was a small office.  Not that this one is large.......

(edited by T-Bear.....)

I just looked at what I wrote and.....What about blocks?   Do you place your blocks on specified layers (blocks insert with their own layers) or on layer "0" ( block assumes current/ specified layer......)?

hudster

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2004, 09:07:26 AM »
My company inserts all title blocks and xrefs on layer 0, i've tried to convince them otherwise, but they won't listen.

Just wait till i'm in charge.
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Kate M

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2004, 09:07:30 AM »
No drawing on defpoints in xrefs, either. If you need temporary lines, make a "temp" layer or something.

t-bear

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2004, 09:15:34 AM »
Defpoints layer is designed for dims....do NOT use it for vports and no-plot layers....that's an old work-around that should be discouraged. AutoCAD now has the ability to create no-plot layers for vports, in-house/engineering notes etc... USE it!

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2004, 10:45:50 AM »
Quote from: t-bear
What about blocks?   Do you place your blocks on specified layers (blocks insert with their own layers) or on layer "0" ( block assumes current/ specified layer......)?


We do the same thing here, for the same reason. It is also, less confusing for a new drafter (CAD operator) when the block is inserted and it matches the properties of the layer it is on.
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t-bear

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2004, 11:23:02 AM »
So we agree that there IS a time when layer "0" is OK?
Again, an exception to the "rules".....
As I read these posts, I am seeing more of these exceptions. interesting, isn't it?
Is the goal of this forum "Standards", to eventually come up with a set of same?  It would be quite interesting to compile what we are doing here.....relevant to each dicipline.  This could then be used as a "guide" for those contemplating initializing or updating CAD standards in their own setting.......

MP

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2004, 11:42:16 AM »
Quote from: t-bear
So we agree that there IS a time when layer "0" is OK?
Again, an exception to the "rules".....
As I read these posts, I am seeing more of these exceptions. interesting, isn't it?
Is the goal of this forum "Standards", to eventually come up with a set of same?  It would be quite interesting to compile what we are doing here.....relevant to each dicipline.  This could then be used as a "guide" for those contemplating initializing or updating CAD standards in their own setting.......

My take on this = and I wish I could spend more time on my response = is that the goal here is to identify the issues that typically require addressing by a standard. While "we" are not likely to agree whether "this" should be "here", or that "it" should be "there", we can agree that "it", "this" and "that" require specification -- and that is precisly what I'm trying to do by my posting of subjects. :)

Still, while we may not agree as noted above, I think the dialogues, complete with the justifications for this and that are useful, if for nothing else than to broaden our understanding of all the different ways CADD can be used ...

... and abused. :)
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Dent Cermak

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2004, 01:26:37 PM »
It's obvious that a "One Standard Fits All" cannot exist. The idea is to make STANDARD what works best for your particular office.
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Kate M

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2004, 02:24:18 PM »
Quote
So we agree that there IS a time when layer "0" is OK?

In terms of this thread, no -- never in xrefs.

In general, yes -- for blocks that need to inherit layer properties.

It may not be this absolute, but here it's easier to say "yes" and "no" than "well, maybe sometimes."

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2004, 02:26:14 PM »
Quote from: Kate M
Quote
So we agree that there IS a time when layer "0" is OK?

In terms of this thread, no -- never in xrefs.

In general, yes -- for blocks that need to inherit layer properties.

It may not be this absolute, but here it's easier to say "yes" and "no" than "well, maybe sometimes."


Good rule of thumb, thanks Kate
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t-bear

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2004, 02:28:31 PM »
I realize that there will not be a "one-size-fits-all", but it might be nice to create an "outline" of what to look for when creating/updating a set of "stadards".....Maybe once we get enough input, some of us could sift through the results and come up with this "outline" and make it a "sticky" at the top of this thing.......just my feeble brain spinning out of control.  Reason I'm going here in the first place...I was asked a while back to set up a set of "standards" for the various diciplines.....I got nowhere for all the afore mentioned reasons.  I thought that if we could compile our results here, they might be useable elswhere.....

CADaver

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3. XREFs shall have no entities on layer "0".
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2004, 09:18:59 PM »
FOR US Layer 0 is used only for blocks and xrefs, that will be inserted on specific layers that we wish to take on the parameters of that layer.  And that is how it is explained in our standards.  Likewise, layer defpoints is used for nothing.