Author Topic: 1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.  (Read 12510 times)

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MP

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« on: June 24, 2004, 05:57:16 PM »
Your thoughts?
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Slim©

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2004, 06:06:51 PM »
I agree 110%
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Dent Cermak

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2004, 06:49:51 PM »
NOPE. In our setup, color denotes pen width. Each layer does have a distinct color assigned, but sometimes we need a thinner line thus a different color.
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Slim©

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2004, 06:51:21 PM »
What happens when you XREF the drawing into another and want that layer to be shaded, or thinner?
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Dent Cermak

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2004, 07:06:37 PM »
#1, we don't do much xref'ing on the final drawing. Our clients prefer  that we insert those details as a block so we don't have a problem if someone forgets to send the xrefed files with the job.
#2 if I xref and want to chang a layer color, I use the layer pull down and change it. For a permanent change I have no problem with making a copy of the drawing and changing the setup in that drawing.Just takes a second to do. SAVE AS. CHANGE, CHAMGE, CHANGE. ALL DONE.
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MP

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2004, 07:11:32 PM »
So (rhetorically speaking) when your drawing deliverables are in the thousands (each potentially referencing dozens of models) would hard coded colors and / or linetypes be a good thing in either parent or model drawings? :)
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Dent Cermak

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2004, 07:14:08 PM »
WAY DIFFERENT FIELDS I GUESS. I WISH MY DELIVERABLES WERE IN THE THOUSANDS, BUT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN SURVEYING/MAPPING.
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hudster

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2004, 07:54:25 AM »
I use byblock for blocks so I can relocate multiple blocks on  differing layers and have them reflect the layers they are placed on.
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M-dub

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2004, 08:28:58 AM »
Bylayer, Bylayer, Bylayer!

Of course, there are LITTLE deviations and special cases here and there, but...

Bylayer, Bylayer, Bylayer!

Byblock isn't too bad sometimes, either...

Kate M

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2004, 09:11:44 AM »
My biggest problem with things not "bylayer" is with xref-ed backgrounds. We bring in arch drawings and turn them grey for reference/coordination, and it's really annoying when half the drawing isn't bylayer and we have to go in and mess with it (which we're not supposed to do 'cause they're not *our* drawings).

John Kaul (Se7en)

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2004, 02:06:30 PM »
Using "Named plot styles" or "Color dependent plot styles"?

sometimes i refedit my blocks to be byblock, but very --VERY-- rarely.
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t-bear

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2004, 02:39:05 PM »
Good point 7,  the debate between CTB's and STB's could go on forever but not here....right?  Point being, your use of bylayer will depend on which you are using.
So it might be apropo (SP) to say that "when using color dependant plot styles......color & linetype shall be set bylayer".  That better?

Keith™

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2004, 04:11:05 PM »
Quote from: t-bear
Good point 7,  the debate between CTB's and STB's could go on forever but not here....right?  Point being, your use of bylayer will depend on which you are using.
So it might be apropo (SP) to say that "when using color dependant plot styles......color & linetype shall be set bylayer".  That better?


Well T-Bear, I had said something akin to that yesterday when I attempted to post it, evidently the swamp went down .... so... now I find myself searching posts to see which ones I didn't read...

Oh well, as you said, if you use CTB plot styles then you must assign the color that defines the lineweight, presumably that is bylayer, but if you use lineweight settings set the objects bylayer always.
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AVCAD

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2004, 04:59:52 PM »
YOUR ALL NUTS!!!

EVERY OBJECT SHOULD BE BYLAYER I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK!!

Xref's should be halftoned make the color 8 and 9 with 9 being allittle more black then 8.

use the first 7 colors as your main color and have you blocks set up with those so they can be bylayer.

and set up other layers with other colors you have 255+ colors to chose from..and unlimited amount of layers. There is no reason that your objects shouldnt be set to bylayer.

You people create so much more work for the rest of the world.

what happens when you have blocks that have layers that are one color and the objects in that block are another color.....I CANT CHANGE THE COLOR!!! then I have to go in and burst all your damn blocks set then all to bylayer and then change the color.

If you would just use bylayer to begin with I and the rest of the world would only have to change the layer color and I would beable to leave your block alone!!!

And beside that BLocks should only be one color anyways!! You shouldnt have 3 layers for the same block!! POOP make the how block yellow and make yellow print out black.

AHHHHH...I am done!

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Slim©

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2004, 05:29:44 PM »
Now, now, let's be polite.
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nivuahc

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2004, 05:34:26 PM »
Blocks should be set color and linetype = BYBLOCK

Everything else should be set = BYLAYER

Now I'll tell you why:

When I put a symbol on a drawing that's a new piece of equipment (let's say a 2 X 4 fluorescent fixture) and I need to show another one that's exactly like that one, only with a DASHED linetype because it's 'existing' I can either create a new block just for existing items (which means double the amount of blocks in my library) or I can explode the block and change it that way ( :evil:  ) or, if my block is created with the linetype set to = BYBLOCK, I can select it and either change it to an 'existing' layer or change the linetype to 'dashed'.

CADaver

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2004, 09:01:01 PM »
Quote from: nivuahc
only with a DASHED linetype because it's 'existing' I can either create a new block just for existing items (which means double the amount of blocks in my library) or I can explode the block and change it that way ( :evil:  ) or, if my block is created with the linetype set to = BYBLOCK, I can select it and either change it to an 'existing' layer or change the linetype to 'dashed'.


Or you could do it the "proper" way by building it on layer zero and inserting it on the "proper" layers.

Jes kidding, so lighten up.

Anyway that's how we do it.  Everything is color, linetype and weight bylayer.  Mainly because we use the be-jeebers out of XREFs, it's hard to find a file without at least one. Being able to display the xref with a darker color to make the current file data stand out more is an aid to the design process.  The XREFd data is available, but not overpowering.

nivuahc

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2004, 05:05:52 PM »
Quote from: CADaver
Or you could do it the "proper" way by building it on layer zero and inserting it on the "proper" layers.


Yes, without a doubt. Perhaps I should have specified that. :?

But setting everything to BYBLOCK for blocks is absolutely the way to go.

Period.

If for nothin' else than 'I said so'.  :twisted:

CADaver

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2004, 05:30:21 PM »
Quote from: nivuahc
But setting everything to BYBLOCK for blocks is absolutely the way to go.

Period.

If for nothin' else than 'I said so'.  :twisted:


Hmmm... if everything is on the "proper" layer, what advantage would byblock be?

MP

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2004, 06:11:25 PM »
Quote from: CADaver
Hmmm... if everything is on the "proper" layer, what advantage would byblock be?

In that context there is no advantage, but for the sake of a complete discussion, byblock would enable the child entites of the block to adopt the color of the instance, rather than the layer the instance resides on., thereby giving blocks the greatest degree of flexibility and adaptability should a spec, or need require that kind of behavior. Now before you balk, I am fully aware this flies in the face of "no hard coded colors" and I agree; hense my preface. :)
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CADaver

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2004, 08:19:46 PM »
Quote from: MP
...by giving blocks the greatest degree of flexibility and adaptability...
Hard coding color or linetype reduces flexibility from that point on.  So what seems like more flexibility, is in actuality less.

MP

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2004, 08:24:06 PM »
Quote from: CADaver
Hard coding color or linetype reduces flexibility from that point on.  So what seems like more flexibility, is in actuality less.

You're preaching to the choir. :)
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CADaver

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2004, 08:27:44 PM »
Quote from: MP
Quote from: CADaver
Hard coding color or linetype reduces flexibility from that point on.  So what seems like more flexibility, is in actuality less.

You're preaching to the choir. :)
sometimes they need to sermon more than anyone.   :wink:

Keith™

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2004, 09:22:48 PM »
Even in blocks we have everything set to bylayer, simply because our layers are so well defined that if I manipulate that layer, ,I can expect that only the correct entities are affected, even those within blocks. .... and we put block entities on the layer they belong on, not layer 0, but that is for another thread....
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CADaver

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2004, 11:49:31 PM »
Quote from: Keith
Even in blocks we have everything set to bylayer, simply because our layers are so well defined that if I manipulate that layer, ,I can expect that only the correct entities are affected, even those within blocks. .... and we put block entities on the layer they belong on, not layer 0, but that is for another thread....
We too, have precise well defined layer naming conventions for our work that eliminates the desire to change an elements property.

Dent Cermak

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2004, 08:55:42 AM »
Here's a problem that I just ran into setting a linetype by layer. In R14 and prior, you used the AEC Draw command to insert a block along a line to create the symbol for sanitary sewers, water lines, gas lines, etc. With the advent of Acad2000+ and Windows XP that routine has gone to the retired list. Autocad did not provide replacement linetypes, so new linetypes were created using the Express Tools routine. Works great. You set the new line types  to the correct layers.Now you send your drawing to the client. He opens the drawing and all is well with the world. He inserts your drawing into his drawing and all of the linetypes disappear. His layers are all set to "continuous" linetype. He's too stupid to list the line to see what layer the lines are on. He's too dim witted to load a copy of your acad.lin file. My work-around is to set the line type on the individual lines. Wastes much less time than trying to deal with the retards. If they want to change the lines to their linetype, it's a one step operation, otherwise my symbols remain.
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CADaver

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2004, 10:42:19 AM »
Quote from: Dent Cermak
He's too dim witted to load a copy of your acad.lin file.
Linetypes are saved in the drawing.

Quote from: Dent Cermak
If they want to change the lines to their linetype, it's a one step operation, otherwise my symbols remain.
Even when I'm trying to use your file as an XREF background of existing data, your linetype remains, unchangable in the target file.  Which forces me to waste time.

The only sure way to make it idiot proof is train them so that they are no longer idiots. As I said before, IMO, the re is no "intelligent" reason to change the properties of elements.

Keith™

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2004, 01:13:25 PM »
Our object linetypes and colors are bylayer and only in a very few exceptions (like maybe one) an object is changed
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Dent Cermak

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2004, 01:26:10 PM »
Cadaver, linetypes , if set bylayer,  DO NOT remain in the drawing if he inserts my drawing into his setup, and has a layer named the same as mine with the linetype set to continuous. My linetypes disappear and are replaced with his continuous linetype because the line is set "bylayer'. Try it and see. I'm talking about inserting my drawing as a block, not xref'ing.And it is not my job to train my client or his/her drafter. My job is to figure a way to work around their ignorance. (Other companies REALLY don't like it when you call them to show them how to do something "right").
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CADaver

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2004, 01:34:12 PM »
Quote from: Dent Cermak
Cadaver, linetypes , if set bylayer,  DO NOT remain in the drawing if he inserts my drawing into his setup, and has a layer named the same as mine with the linetype set to continuous. My linetypes disappear and are replaced with his continuous linetype because the line is set "bylayer'. Try it and see. I'm talking about inserting my drawing as a block, not xref'ing.And it is not my job to train my client or his/her drafter. My job is to figure a way to work around their ignorance. (Other companies REALLY don't like it when you call them to show them how to do something "right").
If he has the same layer name with a different linetype, you're right, it takes on the linetype of his layer.  For us that is desirable behavior.  Your special linetype for your drawing, now becomes existing whatever on my drawing, and I want to control the linetype in the target drawing.  Limiting that capability reduces the flexibility of the source model.

But the linetypes are still there, they follow the drawing when it's inserted.  If I wish to restore that linetype to that layer, it's a couple of clicks away.

Dent Cermak

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2004, 01:38:56 PM »
Sure, all he has to do is load my linetype and set his layer to it. I'm telling you, these morons cannot figure that out. I'M DEALING WITH ARCHITECTS HERE!! They can't figure out why I go APE SNIT when the take my drawing, rotate it and move the "lower, left-hand corner" to 0,0.
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CADaver

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2004, 01:50:15 PM »
Quote from: Dent Cermak
Sure, all he has to do is load my linetype and set his layer to it. I'm telling you, these morons cannot figure that out. I'M DEALING WITH ARCHITECTS HERE!! They can't figure out why I go APE SNIT when the take my drawing, rotate it and move the "lower, left-hand corner" to 0,0.
hmmm... I guess I've been real lucky the last 20 years, not to have run into those guys.  We've had one or two trash a drawing, but if that's what they wish to do, then carry on.  Where I am, the contractor will build from my drawings, not the Archie's.

Dent Cermak

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2004, 01:52:00 PM »
smart contractor!!
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CADaver

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« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2004, 01:55:15 PM »
Quote from: Dent Cermak
smart contractor!!
Not that, he's getting paid by us, not the Archie, so he knows who he has to please.

Keith™

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2004, 02:24:09 PM »
While I agree with you Dent, I also think that in the event another company uses YOUR drawings, they should either conform to your standards, or you should conform to theirs. Either way, it solves your problem.
That being said, if you send out a drawing that someone uses and it screws up the drawing, that becomes their problem, if'n they are too stupid to understand why, then they should not be using AutoCAD.
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Bob Garner

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2004, 04:08:22 PM »
I can see a big problem is sharing our drawings with someone else, either inside our office or outside.

I always include a Read me.txt file in the same directory as my ACAD drawing file.  The Read me file is a standard form I fill out which describes the layering system used, method of plotting (by color, by line weights, or...), line types used, etc., as much information I can think of for someone else to understand how the drawing is set up.  This makes happy clients.  
Actually it's also necessary for my survival because I frequently set up drawings differently to accomplish different purposes and I can never remember how I set up the different drawings.

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Dent Cermak

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1. Color and linetype shall be set bylayer.
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2004, 04:17:59 PM »
getting old's a bummer ain't it Dude.
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