Author Topic: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace  (Read 15235 times)

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dan19936

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Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« on: November 16, 2006, 04:59:35 PM »
We draw our architectural drawings in model space and use paperspace viewports to compose the sheet. I'm always explaining to new staff that I want the viewport exactly aligned with a border rectangle, on defpoints, in modelspace. To do that I have to explain my old-school method:
1) Draw border rectangle in mspace
  a) In R12 we measured the viewport, drew the border in mspace & scaled it up.
  b) Now we can trace the viewport in pspace, and use ExpressTools CHSPACE, if the viewport is the right scale.
2) The viewport usually isn't aligned right in the first place, so we need to move the border correctly to the drawing. I.e. don't move the plan to the border!
3) I like the viewport to be exactly 'snapped' to the border.
  a) I use ZOOM > L (old school, now undocumented option to snap left corner of viewport to picked point)
      enter scale factor, 1/96xp for 1/8"=1'-0".
  b) The less rigorous of my colleagues just pan the viewport to look like it aligns.

Is there an non-old school way of doing this?

Thanks,

Dan

T.Willey

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2006, 05:08:47 PM »
So if the viewports lower left hand corner boundry is at '(200 600 0) in model space, you want the viewport in paper space to be at the same point?  You don't insert your border at '(0.0 0.0 0.0) and move the viewport into the middle of the border?

If this is true, then you can set up a lisp routine to do it.  Is there one viewport per sheet drawing? Only one layout space used per sheet drawing?
Tim

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LE

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2006, 05:16:27 PM »
I been doing architectural production in acad, for many moons now, I simple xref the base drawing on model-space @1:1, then xclip the area I want, go to up-stairs (mean paper-space) - insert the title block @1:1, create my viewports - give them the plot scale and that's all

I do almost the same using the Sheet Set Manager.

Why, the need for the boundary in model?

dan19936

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2006, 06:46:51 PM »
One example, an elevation file. I will draw multiple elevations, interior or exterior in a file, all aligned horizontally with xrefed & xclipped plans above the elevations for reference. These elevations can then be composed on a sheet using viewports. We then need to know, in modelspace, what the viewport boundary is, so that notes don't extend past the viewport, and so that the elevations are consistently formatted.

The trick is to exactly align the viewport to the boundary. My old school method works just fine, I just have to explain to the new people who don't know what a command line is, that they have to type Zoom > L and type the obtuse scale factor. I could use the center point option, but then we have to either draw a guideline to snap to the center, or use a 2pt midpoint snap.

T.Willey

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2006, 07:01:37 PM »
You can use the routine found at the end of this post to draw a guide after the viewport is drawn.
Tim

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dan19936

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2006, 07:05:21 PM »
Thanks, I'm actually just trying to understand what others do in this situation without using lisp, I want the viewport aligned with a specific border in mspace, not the otherway around.

I have this bad habit of explaining to all the newbies by old school methods and/or my special lisp routines when sometimes there is a new 'feature' of autocad that I haven't kept up with.

Dan

You can use the routine found at the end of this post to draw a guide after the viewport is drawn.

dan19936

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2006, 07:12:02 PM »
The viewport 'boundary' location may vary depending on the drawing content. Our models typically have plans with a property line corner at 0,0, unless it is a survey which might have its own specialy alignment. Elevations have height of 100'-0" or 0'-0" aligned with y=0. When you say "move the viewport into the middle of the border", how exactly do you do that? Using Zoom > Center > scale factor?

So if the viewports lower left hand corner boundry is at '(200 600 0) in model space, you want the viewport in paper space to be at the same point?  You don't insert your border at '(0.0 0.0 0.0) and move the viewport into the middle of the border?

If this is true, then you can set up a lisp routine to do it.  Is there one viewport per sheet drawing? Only one layout space used per sheet drawing?

Diněsaur

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2006, 07:14:10 PM »
One way I have used is to first create my viewport, draw a line on the diagonal and then use changespace to transfer the line to modelspace.  A rectangle of the exact size needed can then be constructed and placed anywhere in the model to represent your view window's extents.  Zooming a window through the viewport will yield your model in position and to correct scale.
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T.Willey

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2006, 07:20:46 PM »
What I have done at past jobs is:
Xref in the floor plan at '(0 0 0) in model space
Go into paper space and either xref in the title block, or insert it at '(0 0 0)
I think create a viewport inside my title blocks area
Enter the viewport, zoom extents, find the area I want to show and then zoom to my scale.
If I need to know what my area is in model space that is shown through the viewport, I would just draw a rectangle from my viewport, and it was close enough.

Above is what I used to do when I was able to put all my notes and dimensions in model space, not that I have to put them all in paper space, I just zoom around the area of the drawing I need with the viewport.

Maybe I'm (we?) are not understanding what you are saying.  Sorry if this is the case.
Tim

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LE

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2006, 07:32:15 PM »
Yep...


That's basically the way most cad users do.

(in my own case, I place the xref-clipped in any area on the model-space - when I am not using the Sheet Set Manager)

T.Willey

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2006, 07:33:44 PM »
(in my own case, I place the xref-clipped in any area on the model-space - when I am not using the Sheet Set Manager)
I used to do it this way, but for me it was just easier to use 0,0,0.
Tim

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dan19936

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2006, 07:47:39 PM »
That's basically what I'm talking about, I'm just rigourous about having an exact rectangle in mspace that the viewport aligns with. I don't like it when our drawing sets have the plans set up with all of them positioned a little different because people just pan the viewport to align. My analness comes from the R12 days before xclipping, thus when we had plans with match lines we had to have one viewport to 'crop' the plan, then another for notes/gridlines that were beyond the match line. The viewports HAD to be exactly matched up.

Diněsaur's method of just zoom > window to the correctly proportioned rectangle or diagonal line is more straight forward than my zoom > left approach. One just has to trust the rectangles or you might have a drawing not to scale.

What I have done at past jobs is:
Xref in the floor plan at '(0 0 0) in model space
Go into paper space and either xref in the title block, or insert it at '(0 0 0)
I think create a viewport inside my title blocks area
Enter the viewport, zoom extents, find the area I want to show and then zoom to my scale.
If I need to know what my area is in model space that is shown through the viewport, I would just draw a rectangle from my viewport, and it was close enough.

Above is what I used to do when I was able to put all my notes and dimensions in model space, not that I have to put them all in paper space, I just zoom around the area of the drawing I need with the viewport.

Maybe I'm (we?) are not understanding what you are saying.  Sorry if this is the case.

Diněsaur

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2006, 07:59:19 PM »
. . . One just has to trust the rectangles or you might have a drawing not to scale. . .
If your viewport is to scale before the change space and you lock the layer of your window or turn it into a block, your drawings will always be to scale when you zoom it into the viewport, but it does no harm to check the scale just to make sure and then lock the viewport.
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CADaver

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2006, 04:38:20 PM »
Thanks, I'm actually just trying to understand what others do in this situation without using lisp, I want the viewport aligned with a specific border in mspace, not the otherway around.
Seems like a lot of trouble for little benefit to me, but I'm working in a 3D world so it may be different.  BUT, if you place annotation in paperspace (where it belongs ;-)) you needn't worry so much about it bleeding over the viewport boundary.

CmdrDuh

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2006, 04:47:53 PM »
2 ways I have done it
1- trace your VP in PS and cut the rectangle and paste in MS.  Scale up to size of VP scale.  In PS, go into VP and zoom window.
2-create VP, Trace as in 1, paste, then set up View based on rectangle.  IN PS VP, reset view to current
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Krushert

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2006, 05:00:35 PM »
..... place annotation in paperspace (where it belongs ;-)) .....
Yeah that would seem logical if your are a Vulcan.   :-D

We place annotation in model space (just how we do it).
If i need to know where the viewport is in model space, I draw rectangle over my viewport and used the "change space" command.  The command is express tool however in 2007 it became a core command.


Just another way to do it.   :-)

**Edit**
Sorry opened mouth (fingers) before reading all.   :oops:
« Last Edit: November 17, 2006, 05:05:26 PM by Krushert »
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CADaver

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2006, 05:25:45 PM »
..... place annotation in paperspace (where it belongs ;-)) .....
Yeah that would seem logical if your are a Vulcan.   :-D
Darn, I thought the hat covered me pointy ears.

CADaver

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2006, 05:28:14 PM »
Doesn't Alan have a viewport guide lisp function around here some where??

T.Willey

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2006, 05:32:04 PM »
Doesn't Alan have a viewport guide lisp function around here some where??
This link in this post in this very thread.
Tim

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LE

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2006, 05:37:17 PM »
(in my own case, I place the xref-clipped in any area on the model-space - when I am not using the Sheet Set Manager)
I used to do it this way, but for me it was just easier to use 0,0,0.

Yes - me too - what I was saying is that for example I have my base drawing drawn on 0,0,0 - then I xref it into any new sheet(dwg) and dropped anywhere (mostly/always from the 0,0 quadrant) - then if I need to have first floor plan & second floor plan - I simple call the xclip and leave those particular floors in different location - also I need to reference an enlarge area - in different scale, - I have my own setscale routine that I use for all my dimension and annotations (and yes I also like the idea of having general annotations on upstairs (paper)) - (using the sheet set manager - I simple do my views, give them the right name - and call the internal command placeview - from the SSM tree - much easier).

man... to much typing - I know.

CADaver

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2006, 06:01:02 PM »
Doesn't Alan have a viewport guide lisp function around here some where??
This link in this post in this very thread.
Gee, I'm blind as well as old and ugly.  Thanks Tim.

Robb

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Re: Aligning Paperspace Viewport with Modelspace
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2007, 06:01:17 PM »
I set it all up in our templates for the main sheet sizes we use. D and E size sheets.

I'll explain if anyone wants to read on...

Basically our company border is referenced into paperspace. The exterior outline of the border is traced along with the inside limits of the border. This is converted into a block and inserted into modelspace. This is now the limits of the border. All objects that you want to display must fit within the inside box.

The first block is 1:1 scale, so if its a 24x36" sheet the dimensions are 24"x36". This block is copied and scaled for every scale we use, (arch). 1,2,4,8,12,24,48, etc., I may create a metric but we hardly do metric.

These blocks are placed up against each other (on a locked layer) (1:1 starting at 0,0,0 at the lowest left hand corner) and basically arrayed horizontally across modelspace. Custom views are created for each scale that allow the user to enter a command that "redirects" them to that view. Example: V48 (View 48 scale - modelspace only) will redirect the user to the block/view scaled at 48. Users can place all drawings that are meant to be displayed at 1/4" = 1'-0" scale.

In paperspace I have a viewport for every scale we use that is zoomed in to it proper scaled border/block in modelspace. The viewports are custom polygon viewports as I added tabs to designate the scale and each can be picked or use (crtl+r) to cycle through them. Viewports are display locked and set on a locked layer.

To create gridline patterns the user must refedit the modelspace border outline and add the necessary grid lines. Refclose>save and you have your gridlines. Now, the grid borders are turned off in all viewports so the gridlines will not show up in paperspace. What I've done was insert the same block in paperspace (xclipped to only show only the inner border) and placed it on a layer with a lineweight that displays our gridlines nicely.

It seems to work for me. Users need not create viewports at all. No scaling to be done as it is all preset. If you know what scale you need to work in go to modelspace, enter the hotkeys to get to your preset scaled view and place your drawing within the border limits of that scale. Done.

Takes some time to setup but saved me alot of time in the long run. Only problem I thought of was people peaved with unused viewports and the array of unused blocks.

Some pics: