Topic: ( C3D 07 ) issues and comments

[Mark]

Well I'm totally confused at this point! ( nothing new for me ) ( pun intended *grin* )

I just created a new dwg and still have problems, let me start one more time. I'll leave the Group alone this time. *sigh*

[Mark]

Open new drawing w/ no special template.

Created three layers; monuments, points and text.

Inserted my found monument block.

Created a new "Point Style" called 'monuments'.
---- "Marker" is set to block.
---- Under "Display", "Marker" is set to 'monuments' layer, "Label" is on '0' layer.





Insert some new points at random places in my dwg.

Created a new "Point Group" called 'found'.
---- changed "Point Style" to 'monuments'
---- left "Point Label Style" on 'Standard'



If I freeze or turn off '0' layer I lose everything, nodes and blocks. Also the center of the block, the solid hatch, doesn't show.

[Dinosaur]

Some questions . . .
What layers are your points and point groups supposed to be created in:
  a  the layer settings tab in toolspace under "Drawing Settings"?
  b  the command setting defaults in toolspace under "Points"?
  c  the "Create Points" toolbar?
I think you will need to have one layer (perhaps using "0" can simplify the rest but I have not tested it) that all points are created on and a seperate layer for each point group with sub layers for the nodes and labels specified by the styles used in each point group's properties.

[Jeff_M]

Personally. I wouldn't use Layer 0 for anything other than the block definitions.

I did notice that the Point Group Layer is 0, so we're back to "if you freeze the layer that the PG resides on, everything associated with that point group gets frozen"

[Dinosaur]

Personally. I wouldn't use Layer 0 for anything other than the block definitions . . .

A long standing debate topic . . . I also use it for inserting complex blocks that contain multiple layers which are pretty much what a Civil 3D object is but absolutely nothing else.  Regardless, with Civil 3D throwing in this wicked mix of layers and nesting hierarchy, I think some of the old rules may not work as well any more and exploring the combined power of Layer 0 and OFF may be worth a try.

[Mark]

Some questions . . .
What layers are your points and point groups supposed to be created in:
  a  the layer settings tab in toolspace under "Drawing Settings"?
  b  the command setting defaults in toolspace under "Points"?
  c  the "Create Points" toolbar?

a) '0'
b) '0'
c) '0'

[Mark]

here is the dwg .... just in case anyone wanted see it.

[Dinosaur]

Yes, too much Layer 0 there Mark.  Try leaving "a" alone, set "b" for points to a named layer for all points (nodes and labels can share this layer) and then make a layer for a point group with sub layers for the nodes and labels within that group.  I think you can control either the node or lable visibility with either freeze/thaw or ON/OFF with this setup.

[Mark]

thanks Steve, I'll give that a try in the AM.

[Greg B]

Mark - bout time you change that sig line of yours?

[Mark]

Mark - bout time you change that sig line of yours?

Dang it!! Meant to do that last week .....

thanks Greg.

[Dinosaur]

Here is one more option for you Mark if my layering thesis proves to be bogus.  There is one last line of attack that is guaranteed to give you the desired visibility, but it precludes making any changes if you xref this file into a different drawing.  In the display tab for the specified style you can change the visibility of any element to either on or off independent of what layer they reside along with the ability to force the color, linetype and line weight properties.  As I mentioned this has major ramifications if you xref the drawing because this feature cannot be controlled from the second drawing.

<BEGIN RANT MODE HERE>

If it were not for this limitation, I would already be experimenting with making the whole blasted drawing on Layer "0" except for those specified in the display tabs and using these display properties to control the finished output.  Blasphemy to be sure and I am probably promoting a change that is too extreme, but I am becoming VERY frustrated with layer problems similar to what you have described and a style based approach may eventually be the best solution.  I am pretty sure style based can work if the drawing is set up for stb plotting and has some well thought out stb files for various type plans.

[Mark]

Thanks Steve, I now see what I was missing. It's amazing what a little sleep will do.

I currently have;
point group on 'pgroup' layer
marker on 'monuments' layer
label text on the 'text' layer

now I can turn off/freeze the text and still see my blocks.

[Dinosaur]

That is good.  Now, do you want to be able to display the contents of only certain point groups in some drawings, such as control points, certain utilities or staking points?  If so you will need to create sets of layers fo each of those point groups as well, perhaps even a special node and label style as well.