Topic: ( C3D 07 ) issues and comments

[Mark]

Just installed C3D 2007 and removed C3D 2006 (by hand, it wouldn't un-install). So far I've noticed a couple of things. The CUI editor works much better, those "Feature Lines" and tools are pretty cool. I see the same old bugs are still there though. Like the hour glass in the layer drop down.



more when I get to them ....

[Mark]

Here's a real nightmare for me. Using the "Task Pane" to insert raster images into my drawings.

To add 2D rasters to your map

1. In the Display Manager, click Data  Add Data.
2. In the Data Connect window, select Raster in the Feature Sources list.
3. Under Connection Name, type a name for this connection.
4. Specify the folder that contains the image. Click the folder icon to browse to the folder.
5. Click Connect.

Boom!

Our image dir has 1150 .ecw image files in it, plus all the support files, so you're looking at over 3000 files in one dir. If you use a dir with just a few images, no problem. This really sucks, now I have to have images stored all over the dang place, and they're 33.8MB each!

[Mark]

Thanks to someone here at the COT all is not lost. You can import .ecw files so long as you install the "Autodesk Raster Design 2007 Object Enabler" using the Map --> Image --> Insert function.

[Mark]

Using a block as symbol marker for my point style. The "Display" has one layer for my marker (block) and another for my label (text). When I freeze the label layer the markers ( blocks ) disappear although they're on a different layer.

[Mark]

When you have the any of the style dialogs open C3D disappears from the Alt+Tab list. Didn't this happen in 2006 also!

[Cannon]

Using a block as symbol marker for my point style. The "Display" has one layer for my marker (block) and another for my label (text). When I freeze the label layer the markers ( blocks ) disappear although they're on a different layer.

It's essentially a nested block, I would consider this expected behavior. There is a long thread on the official DGs about this very thing right now if you want more commentary.

[Mark]

Using a block as symbol marker for my point style. The "Display" has one layer for my marker (block) and another for my label (text). When I freeze the label layer the markers ( blocks ) disappear although they're on a different layer.

It's essentially a nested block, I would consider this expected behavior.

If I may, what do you do in this situation?

[Greg B]

Change the block from bylayer to byblock or vice versa?

[Dinosaur]

Is there any difference if you just turn the label layer to OFF?

[Mark]

Is there any difference if you just turn the label layer to OFF?

Haven't tried that yet. What I do is put my text-labels on a non-plotting layer. I didn't think it would affect the points.

Change the block from bylayer to byblock or vice versa?

Tried that too Greg, didn't work either.

[Greg B]

Could you have put the block on the wrong layer?

[Jeff_M]

Using a block as symbol marker for my point style. The "Display" has one layer for my marker (block) and another for my label (text). When I freeze the label layer the markers ( blocks ) disappear although they're on a different layer.

I'm having a hard time duplicating this, Mark. Using the default settings in the _autodesk civil 3d (imperial) ncs extended.dwt template, I have my trees show a Tree block on layer V-NODE-TREE, the default setting for the label is on the same layer so I changed that to V-NODE-TEXT. I then froze the V-NODE-TEXT layer and my tree blocks are still quite visible.

Could you post your drawing, or a portion of it?

[Dinosaur]

Could you have put the block on the wrong layer?

Good thought with normal AutoCAD Greg, but there are at least 3 different places in Civil 3d where these layers are specified or affected by a parent entity and usually at least one of them specifies Layer 0 as a target.  The program puts the object seemingly on whichever of these settings it thinks has the highest rank - usually the most inconvenient one for manipulation.
Freezing layers in Civil 3D seems to have some surprising results at times.  OFF seems to act more like I would expect, but I think it is best to make the change in the Layer dialog rather than by a pick.  I have found freezing or turning off by pick to be particularly problematic.  Individual items can be nested down 2 or more layers depending on your default settings and it seems more than half the time I will wind up freezing layer 0 or find out that I already have done so.

I'm having a hard time duplicating this, Mark. Using the default settings in the _autodesk civil 3d (imperial) ncs extended.dwt template, I have my trees show a Tree block on layer V-NODE-TREE, the default setting for the label is on the same layer so I changed that to V-NODE-TEXT. I then froze the V-NODE-TEXT layer and my tree blocks are still quite visible.

I think the real culprit may be the default layer Mark has for point creation or for his point group.  I have had all kind of interference with these layer settings.
Straying from the default settings for these layer names seems to be asking for this kind of problem.

[Jeff_M]

Ah, yes. If the point Group is on the same layer as his labels, then freezing the label layer will be freezing the group's layer which then affects everything (labels & markers) for the points on that layer.

[Dinosaur]

Ah, yes. If the point Group is on the same layer as his labels, then freezing the label layer will be freezing the group's layer which then gets everything (labels & markers) for the points on that layer.

Tricky little program, isn't it?  I have been toying with the idea of just using Layer 0 as the ddefault for all of those objects and set the actual layer in the style dialog.  I think that in conjunction with using OFF will give more predictable results.

[Mark]

Well I'm totally confused at this point! ( nothing new for me ) ( pun intended *grin* )

I just created a new dwg and still have problems, let me start one more time. I'll leave the Group alone this time. *sigh*

[Mark]

Open new drawing w/ no special template.

Created three layers; monuments, points and text.

Inserted my found monument block.

Created a new "Point Style" called 'monuments'.
---- "Marker" is set to block.
---- Under "Display", "Marker" is set to 'monuments' layer, "Label" is on '0' layer.





Insert some new points at random places in my dwg.

Created a new "Point Group" called 'found'.
---- changed "Point Style" to 'monuments'
---- left "Point Label Style" on 'Standard'



If I freeze or turn off '0' layer I lose everything, nodes and blocks. Also the center of the block, the solid hatch, doesn't show.

[Dinosaur]

Some questions . . .
What layers are your points and point groups supposed to be created in:
  a  the layer settings tab in toolspace under "Drawing Settings"?
  b  the command setting defaults in toolspace under "Points"?
  c  the "Create Points" toolbar?
I think you will need to have one layer (perhaps using "0" can simplify the rest but I have not tested it) that all points are created on and a seperate layer for each point group with sub layers for the nodes and labels specified by the styles used in each point group's properties.

[Jeff_M]

Personally. I wouldn't use Layer 0 for anything other than the block definitions.

I did notice that the Point Group Layer is 0, so we're back to "if you freeze the layer that the PG resides on, everything associated with that point group gets frozen"

[Dinosaur]

Personally. I wouldn't use Layer 0 for anything other than the block definitions . . .

A long standing debate topic . . . I also use it for inserting complex blocks that contain multiple layers which are pretty much what a Civil 3D object is but absolutely nothing else.  Regardless, with Civil 3D throwing in this wicked mix of layers and nesting hierarchy, I think some of the old rules may not work as well any more and exploring the combined power of Layer 0 and OFF may be worth a try.

[Mark]

Some questions . . .
What layers are your points and point groups supposed to be created in:
  a  the layer settings tab in toolspace under "Drawing Settings"?
  b  the command setting defaults in toolspace under "Points"?
  c  the "Create Points" toolbar?

a) '0'
b) '0'
c) '0'

[Mark]

here is the dwg .... just in case anyone wanted see it.

[Dinosaur]

Yes, too much Layer 0 there Mark.  Try leaving "a" alone, set "b" for points to a named layer for all points (nodes and labels can share this layer) and then make a layer for a point group with sub layers for the nodes and labels within that group.  I think you can control either the node or lable visibility with either freeze/thaw or ON/OFF with this setup.

[Mark]

thanks Steve, I'll give that a try in the AM.

[Greg B]

Mark - bout time you change that sig line of yours?

[Mark]

Mark - bout time you change that sig line of yours?

Dang it!! Meant to do that last week .....

thanks Greg.

[Dinosaur]

Here is one more option for you Mark if my layering thesis proves to be bogus.  There is one last line of attack that is guaranteed to give you the desired visibility, but it precludes making any changes if you xref this file into a different drawing.  In the display tab for the specified style you can change the visibility of any element to either on or off independent of what layer they reside along with the ability to force the color, linetype and line weight properties.  As I mentioned this has major ramifications if you xref the drawing because this feature cannot be controlled from the second drawing.

<BEGIN RANT MODE HERE>

If it were not for this limitation, I would already be experimenting with making the whole blasted drawing on Layer "0" except for those specified in the display tabs and using these display properties to control the finished output.  Blasphemy to be sure and I am probably promoting a change that is too extreme, but I am becoming VERY frustrated with layer problems similar to what you have described and a style based approach may eventually be the best solution.  I am pretty sure style based can work if the drawing is set up for stb plotting and has some well thought out stb files for various type plans.

[Mark]

Thanks Steve, I now see what I was missing. It's amazing what a little sleep will do.

I currently have;
point group on 'pgroup' layer
marker on 'monuments' layer
label text on the 'text' layer

now I can turn off/freeze the text and still see my blocks.

[Dinosaur]

That is good.  Now, do you want to be able to display the contents of only certain point groups in some drawings, such as control points, certain utilities or staking points?  If so you will need to create sets of layers fo each of those point groups as well, perhaps even a special node and label style as well.