TheSwamp
CAD Forums => Vertically Challenged => Land Lubber / Geographically Positioned => Topic started by: BlackBox on April 20, 2016, 12:49:23 PM
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Regardless of using Plan Production Tools, or not, I'm curious to know how others work in terms of where you label your sheet drawings.
The reason I'm asking -
I've always labeled within the sheets I'm labeling, save some no-plot design info in my 'master' line work XREFs, which seems consistent with the PPT workflow (which I do not use currently). Some folks here at my office prefer to instead label everything in the applicable 'master', and just XREF that, relying on a Layer State for each sheet drawing.
The problem is, that we frequently need to share CAD (line work and text) with consultants, and the 'label in each sheet' methodology doesn't work in Civil 3D.
Back in LDD, we'd simply INSERT+EXPLODE the 'sheets' we were needing to send out, and maybe clean up some labels that overlapped at match lines, etc. If you try that in Civil 3D, with myriad DREF labels, etc. you end up with a bunch of duplicate DREFs. :idiot2:
So... for those of you who have to share your data (line work and labels) with consultants, what approach do you use?
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I think this is based upon how the department was first setup. At my previous firm; we tried to limit the amounts of editing we had to do. So we used most of our labels in our base files. Our base files were not just 2D but also had the vertical(s) in it.
Where I am at currently, bigger firm, so they like all the labels in sheets. It is a lot more difficult, but at least you do have some control on how to show something and with over posting text.
Just some thoughts...
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IF you are 'only' sharing linework (big base file), where the labels are doesn't matter.
As you can either delete them all before you send the file out (export to autocad) - DON'T SAVE that file! On exit
Or delete them after in the autocad version.
If they are using C3D let them deal with your labels, or delete them - DON'T SAVE that file! On exit
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BB...get more people on your team and keep doing what you're doing :) Show them why "per sheet" kicks booty...when 4-peeps cranking out a set of plans...no one can complain. When 1 person has the entire labeling step hostage...everyone should.
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Label everything within the sheet.
I've even tried cheating and leaving some road/big property labels in the base file, but I've ended up needing to move/rotate for some random sheet and it's just not worth the headache.
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BB...get more people on your team and keep doing what you're doing :) Show them why "per sheet" kicks booty...when 4-peeps cranking out a set of plans...no one can complain. When 1 person has the entire labeling step hostage...everyone should.
He does have a great point.
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Label everything within the sheet.
I've even tried cheating and leaving some road/big property labels in the base file, but I've ended up needing to move/rotate for some random sheet and it's just not worth the headache.
what he said.. except for profiles
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See with us and profiles, we have been doing the design in where the 3D Data is sourced from. Then data reference / shortcut it to a plan and profile sheet, where we detail them up.
What do you guys do?
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Thanks guys; I appreciate the confirmation. :-)
My ONLY reservations about continuing to label within the sheets, are the implicit task of combining everything for sendout - mostly because Civil 3D isn't smart enough to know that if I COPY+PASTE an Object's Labels from one drawing to another, that both reference the same DREF, to NOT produce a duplicate DREF (1), DREF (2), DREF (3), etc. - the other issue being internal whining.
This office is a small outfit, and so far, suggesting we consider different workflows (like NOT exploding Profile Views? :-o) has been akin to p!ssing in someone's tea... So I have to pick my battles.
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I forgot to mention. When we send out our files. We EXPORT them to 2013 DWG. File size is low and it works for our clients too. Plus, they don't get our styles and stuff.
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If someone needs the model, I will send them the design files. If they want the sheets, too, they get exported to Autocad files or pdf's. I never combine labeled drawings with the design/base drawings...just asking for trouble doing that. And if it's a consultant that needs to work on the project as if they were in our office, I will eTransmit the whole shebang, include the Shortcuts folder, and hope they know how to use it. It's not my job to teach them....
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Wow... Jeff, I will second that. Great advice.
So what we are talking about; labeling objects, is a good practice? I know we are not talking about xref'ing versus data shortcutting or referencing.
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Yes, in my opinion, all labels belong in the sheet files. Most of the reasons why have already been mentioned. One other that I don't recall seeing here is that labels take processing power to populate. If you have all the labels in the base/design file, then each and every sheet must wait for all those labels to be populated. And those calculations occur with every REGEN. Keeping just those labels necessary for the specific sheet speeds up that process.
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If you were to have a big topo with spot shots in our base, would that be the same concept? (Cogo point Labels)?
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OK, no, a topo should typically be fully contained in one drawing with the surface on a unique layer & DataShortcut. What I was talking about are for production drawings, and I usually will not need to move around labels in my topo for use in those drawings. There may be exceptions to this, but I've never had a need to do it any other way.
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Jeff,
We are doing it the exact way you are saying. If that is the "best performance" for production; then we are good to go.
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It's not my job to teach them....
Thanks, Jeff; that last bit particularly resonates with me here.
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What do you all do for profiles themselves? That's the one file I keep together. We label all our utilities in it then xref them into "cut" sheets.
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Regardless of using Plan Production Tools, or not, I'm curious to know how others work in terms of where you label your sheet drawings.
Explain 'label' please. A screen shot will work too perhaps. :-)
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To me, label means a "Civil 3D Label" that attaches its self to a 3D Object. I know we sometimes label street names, and easement descriptions in a our base but the text is usually not annotative.
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To me, label means a "Civil 3D Label" that attaches its self to a 3D Object. I know we sometimes label street names, and easement descriptions in a our base but the text is usually not annotative.
why would it not be annotative? and or a C3D label? Street name from alignment, easements from their parcel...etc
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To me, label means a "Civil 3D Label" that attaches its self to a 3D Object.
Then how do you put those in your sheets? Sorry i'm confused. :-/
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To me, label means a "Civil 3D Label" that attaches its self to a 3D Object.
Then how do you put those in your sheets? Sorry i'm confused. :-/
Drefs.. for some data, and or the actual data like profiles/pipes are in the 'sheet' files and dref'ed back to the design...IF I was following correctly.
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Regardless of using Plan Production Tools, or not, I'm curious to know how others work in terms of where you label your sheet drawings.
Explain 'label' please. A screen shot will work too perhaps. :-)
'Labeling' a sheet, includes any annotation entities, such as Civil 3D Labels, MLeaders, MText/Text, Blocks, etc., used to call out everything you'd need for a given plan set, which might include:
Lot numbers, ponds/lakes, street names, utilities, structure numbers, structure data, [pavement/lot/misc] grades, finished floor elevations, existing structures/buildings/monuments, R/W, easements, property IDs, lane widths, sidewalks, signage, etc.
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What do you all do for profiles themselves? That's the one file I keep together. We label all our utilities in it then xref them into "cut" sheets.
I've always had a hard time with Profiles (as in Profile Views) - mostly due to pipe networks.
I get compartmentalization, so it makes sense to design the pipe networks in a separate drawing, and DREF them where you need.
Problem is you layout the 'water main' pipe network in a drawing named UP01 (Utility Plan). You DREF that pipe network into your 'base' (plan) drawing, because you need to XREF that in other sheets where it should show up, if not for design purposes. You also DREF that pipe network into your profile (profile view) drawing, because you at minimum need label it for your sheet.
You now have duplicate DREFs, both of which are synced at drawing open... Yes, you can NOT DREF it into the 'base' drawing, but then you cannot use it for design purposes, AND you're now required to DREF it into each-and-every-single sheet drawing, which means you cannot Edit it in plan, or profile.
To that end, it doesn't make sense to have the pipe network in its own drawing, when you could instead just do the plan and profile layout within the profile drawing itself, and DREF as needed. There, you now have the ability to properly design the utility in a single drawing, that is used directly in the plan sheets via XREF.
Now, I only label the pipe network in Profile View (to be XREFed), and with the XREF in the sheet drawing, I can then label the XREF pipe network as needed.
Drefs.. for some data, and or the actual data like profiles/pipes are in the 'sheet' files and dref'ed back to the design...IF I was following correctly.
The prospect of designing a single pipe network across multiple sheet drawings, is terrifying.
Never mind the inherent requirement to match pipe elevations with each adjacent sheet, but to DREF that back into the design, just means that each sheet drawing now has both the actual pipe network, and every other pipe network to sync, utterly defeating the purpose of designing the pipe network (segment?) in the sheet from the outset, no?
... Or do you cut up the 'design' (or base?) into each sheet as well? :-D
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Regardless of using Plan Production Tools, or not, I'm curious to know how others work in terms of where you label your sheet drawings.
Explain 'label' please. A screen shot will work too perhaps. :-)
'Labeling' a sheet, includes any annotation entities, such as Civil 3D Labels, MLeaders, MText/Text, Blocks, etc., used to call out everything you'd need for a given plan set, which might include:
Lot numbers, ponds/lakes, street names, utilities, structure numbers, structure data, [pavement/lot/misc] grades, finished floor elevations, existing structures/buildings/monuments, R/W, easements, property IDs, lane widths, sidewalks, signage, etc.
Okay, thanks. We are on the same page. I only label my sheets too.
I am curious though, how do you keep your C3D labels from not appearing in your base files?
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Regardless of using Plan Production Tools, or not, I'm curious to know how others work in terms of where you label your sheet drawings.
Explain 'label' please. A screen shot will work too perhaps. :-)
'Labeling' a sheet, includes any annotation entities, such as Civil 3D Labels, MLeaders, MText/Text, Blocks, etc., used to call out everything you'd need for a given plan set, which might include:
Lot numbers, ponds/lakes, street names, utilities, structure numbers, structure data, [pavement/lot/misc] grades, finished floor elevations, existing structures/buildings/monuments, R/W, easements, property IDs, lane widths, sidewalks, signage, etc.
Okay, thanks. We are on the same page. I only label my sheets too.
I am curious though, how do you keep your C3D labels from not appearing in your base files?
Glad to hear it, Mark; thanks.
As for the last part, not sure that I follow? :? Can you clarify?
[Edit] - The labels are in the sheets, save Parcels, etc. which reside on no-plot layer, so I can 'Label' them within the sheet.
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Regardless of using Plan Production Tools, or not, I'm curious to know how others work in terms of where you label your sheet drawings.
Explain 'label' please. A screen shot will work too perhaps. :-)
'Labeling' a sheet, includes any annotation entities, such as Civil 3D Labels, MLeaders, MText/Text, Blocks, etc., used to call out everything you'd need for a given plan set, which might include:
Lot numbers, ponds/lakes, street names, utilities, structure numbers, structure data, [pavement/lot/misc] grades, finished floor elevations, existing structures/buildings/monuments, R/W, easements, property IDs, lane widths, sidewalks, signage, etc.
Okay, thanks. We are on the same page. I only label my sheets too.
I am curious though, how do you keep your C3D labels from not appearing in your base files?
Glad to hear it, Mark; thanks.
As for the last part, not sure that I follow? :? Can you clarify?
Testing now! LOL
[Edit] - The labels are in the sheets, save Parcels, etc. which reside on no-plot layer, so I can 'Label' them within the sheet.
That is what i was talking about. So you just layers for the C3D labels.
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[Edit] - The labels are in the sheets, save Parcels, etc. which reside on no-plot layer, so I can 'Label' them within the sheet.
That is what i was talking about. So you just layers for the C3D labels.
Historically, I strive to keep my 'base' drawings as line work only - I do usually have some annotation entities in there, as design info, but usually frozen, and not intended for-plot.
Parcels are not able to be DREF, but by making the Parcel labels no-plot, you can Label them within each sheet, by adding the Parcel Area Label, then Label the Parcel Segments, etc. like you might for a Plat, as example.
Setting aside the topic of managing Styles across myriad drawings, Civil 3D does make it easy to quickly 'label' most everything in a given plan sheet.
What I do not want to do (as my coworkers insist on doing via MText,etc.), is Label lots, roads, pipes, and structures, etc. within the 'base'... Hope that makes more sense?
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[Edit] - The labels are in the sheets, save Parcels, etc. which reside on no-plot layer, so I can 'Label' them within the sheet.
That is what i was talking about. So you just layers for the C3D labels.
1) Historically, I strive to keep my 'base' drawings as line work only - I do usually have some annotation entities in there, as design info, but usually frozen, and not intended for-plot.
Parcels are not able to be DREF, but by making the Parcel labels no-plot, you can Label them within each sheet, by adding the Parcel Area Label, then Label the Parcel Segments, etc. like you might for a Plat, as example.
Setting aside the topic of managing Styles across myriad drawings, Civil 3D does make it easy to quickly 'label' most everything in a given plan sheet.
2)What I do not want to do (as my coworkers insist on doing via MText,etc.), is Label lots, roads, pipes, and structures, etc. within the 'base'... Hope that makes more sense?
1. Same here! Base drawings should be nice and clean at all times. :)
2. That is to bad. Once upon a time (ACAD 14 days) I would have done the same thing. Tell your coworkers to leave the dark side. LOL
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2. That is to bad. Once upon a time (ACAD 14 days) I would have done the same thing. Tell your coworkers to leave the dark side. LOL
I wish!
I purchased my Surveyor (and VP of the firm) a new x64 workstation +/- 2 years ago, and he still RDP into his old WinXPx86 workstation to work in AutoCAD 2000 + Eagle Point every day. :-D
The root of my issue, is... and I'm trying very hard to NOT vent personal frustrations here... They're hourly, and I'm salary. Our motivation/incentivization is diametrically opposed.
I've been trying to work their way for the past couple of years, and I'm not okay with good enough... Particularly when it means more hours that I have to work (I'm salary)... hundreds of wasted hours last year, that I am no longer willing to volunteer, frankly.
I'm in the process of starting a new project now - actually, I'm taking their project with the annotation vomit in the base, and completely changing the layout per client request - this project will be my first effort to go back to labeling within the sheet again.
... Now I just need to 'beat' my manhour estimate for completed plans.
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Wow. I am sorry to hear about your co-workers. Just hearing everything you and mark talked about. It makes sense. Clean Base 2D Files for Design. We create our own DREFs with Pipe Networks, Surfaces, etc. We can do whatever we want to put in those DREF.dwgs. But we do not xref any DREFs into sheet files.
I do like the ease of placing text that needs to be shown up in all files in the base. If your in a crunch you can edit that one file and reflect upon the set. We also use a heck of a lot of XREFs in our sheet files in PaperSpace. We have a lot of stuff which shows the same on other sheets, we just create an xref for. Legends Benchmarks. That way if we need to slide the over or move them we can like a block.
It sure is interesting how other people do this. There is really not a great documentation on how to properly set these things up (That I can find). But its nice to know, that we are kinda coming up with a common understanding for this.
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...not a great documentation on how to properly set these things up...
Probably because "properly" is defined differently by so many people. I think the majority here have a similar line of thinking, but I personally know other people who would balk at doing things as I do.
One example: an engineering firm we've worked with for years (and I worked for 30 years ago when we were all just starting out with Acad) STILL inserts their title blocks(with dumb text) in model space, Explodes the block, then edits the text as needed for the job/sheet/author/etc. No paper space, no attributes, no nothing but plain exasperation on my part when I need to help out on one of their projects. (OK, I know, that's not C3D related, especially since they are still using LDD, but you get the idea.) BTW, that is the workflow we HAD to use way back when...there was no paper space, nor attributes, nor mtext, nor...a lot of things.
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...not a great documentation on how to properly set these things up...
Probably because "properly" is defined differently by so many people. I think the majority here have a similar line of thinking, but I personally know other people who would balk at doing things as I do.
One example: an engineering firm we've worked with for years (and I worked for 30 years ago when we were all just starting out with Acad) STILL inserts their title blocks(with dumb text) in model space, Explodes the block, then edits the text as needed for the job/sheet/author/etc. No paper space, no attributes, no nothing but plain exasperation on my part when I need to help out on one of their projects. (OK, I know, that's not C3D related, especially since they are still using LDD, but you get the idea.) BTW, that is the workflow we HAD to use way back when...there was no paper space, nor attributes, nor mtext, nor...a lot of things.
FWIW -
When I was hired on 2+ years ago, it was because the owner had purchased Civil 3D for the designers here (3 back then), and they were still using Land Desktop 2004 without the Land component being installed (I know!)... Despite the fact that they did use paper space for their title blocks, they actually scaled the title block UP, so that the Viewport would be scaled 1:1 (meaning, one sheet is at 1"=200', and another is 1"=40', etc.). :-o
I was finally able to convince two of the designers to NOT scale the title block (the third promptly quit), and instead use the inherent Properties of the Viewport to 'scale' each sheet... But they love their annotation vomit filled drawings more than a fat kid loves cake. :-D
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.. They're hourly, and I'm salary. Our motivation/incentivization is diametrically opposed.
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That sounds like a fundamental problem that is in need of addressing. Maybe invest a bit of thought in how to provide a meaningful positive benefit to doing things more efficiently. Dunno about your particular people, but experience over the last x-many decades has shown me that most drafties really do want to be effective and have a fair amount of pride in their product. Sometimes too much - in that they (we) get emotionally invested in doing things our way,
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Now, I only label the pipe network in Profile View (to be XREFed), and with the XREF in the sheet drawing, I can then label the XREF pipe network as needed.
Do you have one drawing with a profile view / your utility design and xref that into cut sheets, then label the structures / pipes in profile view in the individual sheets themselves?
Or do you create profile views in each individual cut sheet and dref everything you need to see in it?
Only ask because the system I am currently using seems slow. Everything is labeled in a single profile drawing and xref'd into my cut sheets. Takes a while to open some drawings (5 minutes sometimes)... Looking to understand different ways to try them.
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... Maybe invest a bit of thought in how to provide a meaningful positive benefit to doing things more efficiently.
That is the very intent behind my starting this pole; thanks, Cadtag.
Cheers
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Now, I only label the pipe network in Profile View (to be XREFed), and with the XREF in the sheet drawing, I can then label the XREF pipe network as needed.
Do you have one drawing with a profile view / your utility design and xref that into cut sheets, then label the structures / pipes in profile view in the individual sheets themselves?
Or do you create profile views in each individual cut sheet and dref everything you need to see in it?
Sorry - my earlier post wasn't clear enough.
I have one or more Profile drawings, which contain all of the Profile Views, Profile Labels (C3D Labels, MLeaders, etc), and the pipe networks (in Plan, no Labels; or if labeled, for design info on no-plot layer).
I XREF that Profile drawing, and my base drawings, and Label plan view's XREFed pipes, etc. I XCLIP everything but the Profile drawing currently.
I've been wanting to try DREF pipe networks into plan, and XCLIP everything, but I still dislike having duplicate DREFs where possible, as I feel that they slow down the drawings more than a single DREF of the entire network, etc.
Aerial imagery underplays are the single largest time consumer; I added a simple LISP Reactor to unload those XREFs from design models on CLOSE, which has greatly expedited drawing open - down from 2-3 minutes to 30+ seconds (even with full network DREFs etc).
Cheers
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Is it right to xref 3D data in a drawing that has DREFs in it? Even if it might have duplicate data in it? I think of proposed surfaces and pipe networks.
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Not sure that I understand your question; please clarify.
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Sorry Late night last night.
Question is if you have a DWG that has a Pipe Network in it with a Data Shortcut / Referenced Surface into it. Then Xref that file into a sheet file, and then RE-DATA REF the Pipe Network and Surface into the same sheet file "To Cut Plan and Profiles".?
I have seen this here at our office a few times. Personally I think its bad practice, but just curious what you guys think...
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Sorry Late night last night.
Question is if you have a DWG that has a Pipe Network in it with a Data Shortcut / Referenced Surface into it. Then Xref that file into a sheet file, and then RE-DATA REF the Pipe Network and Surface into the same sheet file "To Cut Plan and Profiles".?
I have seen this here at our office a few times. Personally I think its bad practice, but just curious what you guys think...
No worries; thankfully I've not seen that before.
My Profile drawing has the Surface, Alignment, Pipe Network(s) (not as DREF, actually IN this drawing), and Profile Views for the given Alignment. I layout the Pipe Networks in plan, and draw/label in Profile View, so that the Profile Views are 'complete'.
If I DREF the Pipe Network(s) into this drawing, then I can only draw/label them in Profile View, and cannot 'edit' their layout/elevations for conflicts... Which means that I end up needing a second drawing with all of the same things in it, just so I can do all of the plan & profile design, just to DREF elsewhere, which doesn't make any sense to me. For this reason, I consolidate the C3D Objects into the drawing(s) where I can.
My 'master' plan drawing does NOT have the Pipe Networks DREF. When I need them for design changes, I XREF the Profile drawing as underlay.
In the 'cut sheets', I XREF the master plan, and profile drawings - ONE instance of each Pipe Network, and ONE instance of the Surface - since the Profile drawing is already 'complete', I then merely need to label the plan view, and done.
If someone else knows a more efficient way to work, please jump in.
Cheers
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maybe we need a Venn Diagram or Flow Chart to make it clear to all....bust out your best Visio
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Sorry Late night last night.
Question is if you have a DWG that has a Pipe Network in it with a Data Shortcut / Referenced Surface into it. Then Xref that file into a sheet file, and then RE-DATA REF the Pipe Network and Surface into the same sheet file "To Cut Plan and Profiles".?
I have seen this here at our office a few times. Personally I think its bad practice, but just curious what you guys think...
A problem I've encountered with having a the pipe network in the xref (initially would put in base file) and then dref'd in to cut profiles is the profile in my profile views will disappear and have to be added to the profile view every time I open the drawing.
I try and dref the pipe network as little as possible - styles don't update resulting in the same structure being edited after dref and appearing different in each file.
I wouldn't even mind xrefing the pipe network, and just having my profiles cut in the same file, except the pipe file needs the surface dref in, but also has to be dref into the sheet file for labeling, and then the surface is the the sheet file as part of the pipe xref and a dref.
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I feel your pain. Lol. That's why I asked that question in a sense.
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I xref the profile views into my cut sheets and label the pipes in those. Seems to work but on large projects can slow drawing open times down considerably.
When xref'ing files with dref'd data...does that dref data come in as well (the surfaces for example that are dref'd into my profiles)?
Sorry Late night last night.
Question is if you have a DWG that has a Pipe Network in it with a Data Shortcut / Referenced Surface into it. Then Xref that file into a sheet file, and then RE-DATA REF the Pipe Network and Surface into the same sheet file "To Cut Plan and Profiles".?
I have seen this here at our office a few times. Personally I think its bad practice, but just curious what you guys think...
A problem I've encountered with having a the pipe network in the xref (initially would put in base file) and then dref'd in to cut profiles is the profile in my profile views will disappear and have to be added to the profile view every time I open the drawing.
I try and dref the pipe network as little as possible - styles don't update resulting in the same structure being edited after dref and appearing different in each file.
I wouldn't even mind xrefing the pipe network, and just having my profiles cut in the same file, except the pipe file needs the surface dref in, but also has to be dref into the sheet file for labeling, and then the surface is the the sheet file as part of the pipe xref and a dref.
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I believe it does. again we usually have a pipes data ref that have the pipe network and the alignments that are all data ref'd out. In my cut sheet we data ref all that in with the surfaces and then create our views and labels.
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Think this is the best-practices method... it feels sort of like when we didn't have paper space and had to break drawings out in pieces just to create sheets...can't get myself do dref all that
I believe it does. again we usually have a pipes data ref that have the pipe network and the alignments that are all data ref'd out. In my cut sheet we data ref all that in with the surfaces and then create our views and labels.
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what I prefer is to do less work. Lol. If it was me and a small firm, I would keep all my networks and surfaces profiles and views in a design.dwg. Label it all in there, then xref that into a cut sheet file. Lol.
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:lol:
what I prefer is to do less work. Lol. If it was me and a small firm, I would keep all my networks and surfaces profiles and views in a design.dwg. Label it all in there, then xref that into a cut sheet file. Lol.
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A problem I've encountered with having a the pipe network in the xref (initially would put in base file) and then dref'd in to cut profiles is the profile in my profile views will disappear and have to be added to the profile view every time I open the drawing.
I try and dref the pipe network as little as possible - styles don't update resulting in the same structure being edited after dref and appearing different in each file.
I wouldn't even mind xrefing the pipe network, and just having my profiles cut in the same file, except the pipe file needs the surface dref in, but also has to be dref into the sheet file for labeling, and then the surface is the the sheet file as part of the pipe xref and a dref.
If you DREF the Surface into your Pipe drawing, and XREF that into your Sheet drawing, then simply label the XREF Surface (which is a DREF)... It Labels just like any other XREF Object... The only reason to then DREF the Surface into the Sheet, is if you need a different Style applied, though not sure why you'd not then instead apply that Style before saving the Pipe drawing.
As for Style maintenance, 2017 does now support external Style template references, which may come in handy if you're on Subscription (or whatever they're calling it now).
Cheers
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what I prefer is to do less work. Lol. If it was me and a small firm, I would keep all my networks and surfaces profiles and views in a design.dwg. Label it all in there, then xref that into a cut sheet file. Lol.
Haha - this is the very sort of mess that prompted my starting this thread. :-D
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I xref the profile views into my cut sheets and label the pipes in those. Seems to work but on large projects can slow drawing open times down considerably.
When xref'ing files with dref'd data...does that dref data come in as well (the surfaces for example that are dref'd into my profiles)?
Yes - that's the problem.
Civil 3D doesn't support Overlay functionality for DREF; only Attachment. This is what can lead to duplicate DREFs in Sheet drawings, and due to C3D not being smart enough to realize that they're duplicates of the same DREF, it can greatly slow down drawing open from synchronization.
Further still, C3D isn't smart enough to only sync those DREFs that are stale - you save one Alignment's Start a station change, and the entire lot is synced.
Further, the internal DB doesn't allow us the luxury of only connecting to DB in design, it is always connected, and synchronized, etc. Instead, we *should* be able to have static DREFs that aren't connected which perform like blocks, and are only connected when Promoted for Labels, or Edit to the Object, and then Demoted back to DREF (sort of like REFEDIT).
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Yes, in my opinion, all labels belong in the sheet files. Most of the reasons why have already been mentioned. One other that I don't recall seeing here is that labels take processing power to populate. If you have all the labels in the base/design file, then each and every sheet must wait for all those labels to be populated. And those calculations occur with every REGEN. Keeping just those labels necessary for the specific sheet speeds up that process.
This is so stupid...how did Autodesk degrade so much in their understanding of processing and regeneration. LDD wasn't dynamic, but it was fast. Really hope they get this crap figured out.
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maybe we need a Venn Diagram or Flow Chart to make it clear to all....bust out your best Visio
I'll download & install that from MSDN (thank you, BizSpark!), and see what I can do. :-D