TheSwamp
CAD Forums => CAD General => Topic started by: Pukenzz on January 20, 2016, 08:07:54 PM
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Not sure if this is the best place to post or not but...
I'm trying to figure out a way that in my title blocks I can create fields that will read 1 input to populate things like Job Number, Job Site Address, Architect Name and others. I want to input them in one spot and have them filed populate any and all matching fields in that drawing. I'll handle thing like changing drawing sheet / page / date /revision /number / and all the details tha need to be specific per tileblock as normal attributes. I know there are a million posts and web sites describing this but there is some but hoping somebody can give or steer me towards a simple direction. This is for (1) dwg file with multiple title blocks.
thanks in advance.
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dwgprops... create custom properties.
create attributes in the titleblock and populate them with fields that point to the custom properties.. insert field, catagory is I think document, and they will be listed there.
That is exactly how I do my titleblocks, saves tons of time.
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AutoLISP could also be used to automatically create Custom Drawing Properties with supplied values.
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Yes this can be done with fields.
But a simpler way would to create your title block with all information that doesnt change from TB to TB as text. That way it is one spot and all you have to do edit the block when needed.
That is what we do but we insert the TB as an xref.
Then we use feilds for data that will show up in a handful of places in the project.
YMMV
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use sheet sets
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use sheet sets
Although the OP didn't mention so specifically, drawings in model space don't work with sheet set fields.
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use sheet sets
Although the OP didn't mention so specifically, drawings in model space don't work with sheet set fields.
while I don't know if this is totally true....
not sure if at this time why anyone would still be trying to do their sheet(s) in model space??
did we not all give that up in in 1999?
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use sheet sets
Although the OP didn't mention so specifically, drawings in model space don't work with sheet set fields.
And from my reading of sheet sets, they can get buggy when used across multiple layout tabs in one dwg file.
Though I have never experienced any issues when I added a layout for revisions/sketches
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did we not all give that up in in 1999?
Maybe the OP steam punked is CAD.
:tongue2:
just joking
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did we not all give that up in in 1999?
Nope! Still see them today.
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did we not all give that up in in 1999?
Nope! Still see them today.
same....alternately makes me laugh and or cry, and then laugh
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did we not all give that up in in 1999?
Nope! Still see them today.
same....alternately makes me laugh and or cry, and then laugh
Depends on the industry. Not everyone needs to plot from paperspace.
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Indeed. By number of drawings the vast majority of ours are in model space, and its that way across the industry thanks to widespread adoption of programs like AutoFLOW and ISOGEN.
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Yes this can be done with fields.
But a simpler way would to create your title block with all information that doesnt change from TB to TB as text. That way it is one spot and all you have to do edit the block when needed.
That is what we do but we insert the TB as an xref.
Then we use feilds for data that will show up in a handful of places in the project.
YMMV
+1+1
Do it one place in model space that is your title block then xref it in, and per sheet use sheet set fields so you update without opening drawings.
You can use sheet set fields in modelspace that are sheet set properties or referring to another layout, and that is all a sheet set is references to layouts and never had problems with multiple layouts in same drawing.
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Depends on the industry. Not everyone needs to plot from paperspace.
But why *wouldn't* you?
Excluding a rare super simple 2 minute sketch, I just don't see the reason.
It doesn't take any longer to complete the page setup for a layout, than it does for MS.
Just my 2¢
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I agree, I have not plotted from modelspace in many years. I cringe when I see a titleblock in modelspace.
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Every job I do titleblock is in modelspace then xref into paperspace for sheets
Also by doing this you set the titleblock drawing ANNOTATIVEDWG = 1 then you can just drag and drop into modelspace and change annotation scale to see what will fit inside titeblock at different scales.
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I knew this original question would trigger the push back and debate of model space vs paper space and I sincerely appreciate all input. I'm working on compiling example drawing and my reason for using all model space but for now to get to the original question....
I do not want to use X-refs.
My title block will absolutely have static elements like company name, logo, address etc. If something needs to change on these it would be once in a blue moon.
It will also have editable attributes that need changes per title block like revision date, page or sheet number, drawing product number, drawing product description, etc.
Then it will also have info such as job number, job site address, etc. So for these items that will pertain to the entire project I'm thinking fields. Originally I was wanting to use the drawing property info as suggested by drafter X but struggling to find good info to understand how to do custom.
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your reluctance to use xrefs will add some complexity.
As another has said, and I used to do.
One title block drawing with all static information in the project folder - this gets XREF into all files
One title block IN the drawing with the FIELDS for the stuff that changes on each sheet
If you don't do this as an xref then you will wind up with two blocks sitting on top of each other
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Getting off subject but responding to the paper vs model discussion within this post.
Attached is a small sample. I work for a store fixture, cabinetry type fabricator. We are not doing architectural sets, civil sets, base plans, site plans, etc. We are drawing cabinetry. Many details are similar, not the same but similar from one unit to the next. In the attached drawing I can create the left hand unit 100% then mirror it to create the right hand unit. I can see and work with every single bit of the drawing all in paper space rather than having to click through what would be 4 model tabs to make any changes and viewing information. If this was all in paper space I'd have 4 tabs to click through that just is not necessary. I see where paper space works for many industries. Just doesn't make sense in mine.
BTW these title blocks are a mess and that is what I'm working on fixing.
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I respectfully disagree.
I can see and work with every single bit of the drawing all in paper space...
I am presuming you meant to say Model Space, and you could still do that regardless if your title blocks were in separate layouts.
...rather than having to click through what would be 4 model tabs to make any changes and viewing information
I presume you meant to say Layout tabs, and you do have a bit of a point there if you are modifying a lot of data in the layout itself.
If this was all in paper space I'd have 4 tabs to click through...
Not that often, I would argue. Once your title block/border is inserted (presuming it's an xref or at least a block), then you could XOPEN or BEDIT to make changes there. Anything that changes on each sheet would generally be fields controlled by SSM. I don't find that I'm in layouts making edits that often.
How do you print those four "sheets" from MS? Wouldn't you have to print each one individually, picking a new print window each time?
Being able to print from SSM with a couple of clicks, whether it's 3 sheets or 300 sheets is the biggest advantage to me.
Just my 2¢
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I'd use layout tabs just for the plotting.
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The places you corrected me on MS & PS you are correct. I know the difference. Just a brain fart.
To plot these somebody on here helped me years ago write a lisp that goes through and looks for TB's of a specific name. Then it is able to search and find the perimeter of that TB and the plots it out. It plots to fit rather than to scale but in the past I tweaked my TB's just ever so slightly so that when you plot them to fit they actually match the scale.
I created all this stuff at my old job. Now I'm trying to recreate here at my new job. So many many tweaks to go.
https://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=20863.0 (https://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=20863.0)
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The places you corrected me on MS & PS you are correct. I know the difference. Just a brain fart.
To plot these somebody on here helped me years ago write a lisp that goes through and looks for TB's of a specific name. Then it is able to search and find the perimeter of that TB and the plots it out. It plots to fit rather than to scale but in the past I tweaked my TB's just ever so slightly so that when you plot them to fit they actually match the scale.
I created all this stuff at my old job. Now I'm trying to recreate here at my new job. So many many tweaks to go.
https://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=20863.0 (https://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=20863.0)
IMO .. You're making this harder than it should be. Use the tools given to you. I'd be glad to offer suggestions if you're up for it.
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I'm not going to read this entire thing as it sounds like a perfect task for the Sheet Set Manager within AutoCAD. You can either use the default fields (Project name, number, revision, etc) or create custom fields for anything you want. All the fields are accessible via fields. As far as MS/PS and all this standards talk, the requirements will be driven per company and are similar to armpits, everyone has them and most stink.
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IMO .. You're making this harder than it should be. Use the tools given to you. I'd be glad to offer suggestions if you're up for it.
I think so too, all this effort to reproduce what to many of us is the 'hard way' of doing this.
While it might be easier for this person because they are used to dealing with it.
In truth, the time spend learning the new tools and methods will offer a greater return on his investment.
And the added bonus, he will be able to set the 'new' system up anywhere, quickly, and explain it's use to other users as well.
In short, stop trying to reinvent what you had, because it wasn't as good as you think it was.
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I am open to suggestions even though many of my previous responses may indicate otherwise.
However, I think ChrisCarlson said it best and most appropriately though...As far as MS/PS and all this standards talk, the requirements will be driven per company and are similar to armpits, everyone has them and most stink. You may all disagree with my way... I'll listen to your's but would be interested in seeing a drawing sample of yours also as I feel all of our work related disciplines a are all over the place and what works for me may make no sense for you and what works for you may make no sense for me. So an understanding of how it is truly being used day to day may help.
Should we take it to a new post?
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I am open to suggestions even though many of my previous responses may indicate otherwise.
However, I think ChrisCarlson said it best and most appropriately though...As far as MS/PS and all this standards talk, the requirements will be driven per company and are similar to armpits, everyone has them and most stink. You may all disagree with my way... I'll listen to your's but would be interested in seeing a drawing sample of yours also as I feel all of our work related disciplines a are all over the place and what works for me may make no sense for you and what works for you may make no sense for me. So an understanding of how it is truly being used day to day may help.
Should we take it to a new post?
This is what I know...from years of experience
Modelspace for the model
Paperspace for printing
Sheet Set Manager to fill in title blocks and printing/publishing
Works in Civil, Mechanical, Electrical, Architectural, Cabinet/Millwright and across continents.
Those that insist (resist) moving to this manner of printing all resort to working way harder to do it 'their' way than any does doing it this way.
Set the file up yourself....draw your model
save views
Go to layout tabs....restore those views in viewports...used NAMED PAGE SETUPS
notice that printing and plotting becomes a know factor, no need to preview, no need for LISP or other code, it just works
Then introduce sheet sets and fields to your titleblocks...your time is spend drawing the model
not managing titleblocks in modelspace.
Try it....one file get it right once and NEVER have to deal with it again.
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MJ... where do you do your dimensions, notes, annotating, tags, etc?
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OK so little by little you have me coming around. MS vs PS willing to entertain. Tough to really communicate how one or the other does or does not work for me if we are not sitting in front of computers together comparing and contrasting. But willing even though I'm still set on my crappy ways but letting go of some stuff.
Xrefs... not so sold on them yet.
Can you steer me towards using fields, specifically custom fields... Is there a way that I can create a block that contains information that I can enter 1 time on "cover page" and change as needed and that information will automigaclly update the fields in other block all withing that same drawing and only that drawing? I'm talking 1 cover page / template block feeding other blocks. I see how to do it using the drawing properties. However the drawing properties are limited, if by nothing else that narrow columns that can not be made wider to show all the text.
On the attached example I want to edit the attribute field of "1024" on the white template and have that change push into the red corresponding fields of the red TB. Is that a doable thing?
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Feel the power of xrefs :) .. Making global changes is easy peasy with them .. One source one change.
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Pukenzz, What type of work do you do?
Is it machinery? Buildings? Civil? Electronics?
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Store fixtures, cabinetry, casework.
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However the drawing properties are limited, if by nothing else that narrow columns that can not be made wider to show all the text.
I don't understand? Custom properties sounds like it is exactly what you are looking for.
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MJ... where do you do your dimensions, notes, annotating, tags, etc?
They can either go in modelspace (annotative) so that they only show up in the proper scaled viewport.
OR
They can go in Paperspace
I try to use this as a guide:
If it controls the model - model space
If it annotates the model - Paperspace
Through use of layers, and annotative functionality one can dimension the model (annotate/tag/hatch) in modelspace
and then have individual viewports look anyway you want them to.
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OK so little by little you have me coming around. MS vs PS willing to entertain. Tough to really communicate how one or the other does or does not work for me if we are not sitting in front of computers together comparing and contrasting. But willing even though I'm still set on my crappy ways but letting go of some stuff.
Xrefs... not so sold on them yet.
Can you steer me towards using fields, specifically custom fields... Is there a way that I can create a block that contains information that I can enter 1 time on "cover page" and change as needed and that information will automigaclly update the fields in other block all withing that same drawing and only that drawing? I'm talking 1 cover page / template block feeding other blocks. I see how to do it using the drawing properties. However the drawing properties are limited, if by nothing else that narrow columns that can not be made wider to show all the text.
On the attached example I want to edit the attribute field of "1024" on the white template and have that change push into the red corresponding fields of the red TB. Is that a doable thing?
Actually you type it ONE time in your Sheet Set properties, or Sheet Set Custom Properties, and it populates across all sheets in the set.
Custom drawing properties just adds an additional place to store information.
I mostly use sheet set properties (custom properties) to fill in title blocks for years now.
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Here's an example linking the attributes to the 'cover sheet'.
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I'm good with the custom properties idea. It can hold plenty of characters plenty of information the thing I don't like is that I can't open up the column width so I can only see the first +/-14 characters in the editor.
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.....notice that printing and plotting becomes a know factor, no need to preview, no need for LISP or other code, it just works
Thanks for ^^^^^^^^
I still can't get people to "see" this, even after demonstrating it live.
They still want to type in PLOT, pick a window (even when printing from a layout), preview, cancel the preview, then print....
aaaaarrrrrggggg... why people....why?
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I'm good with the custom properties idea. It can hold plenty of characters plenty of information the thing I don't like is that I can't open up the column width so I can only see the first +/-14 characters in the editor.
Now you are just being picky. :)
Did you notice my screen shot? Just hover your mouse over the row.
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Picky yes. But why not? Given the cost of AutoCAD, the robustness of the product, the ability to tweak and customize so many aspects of it and the vast world of intelligent individuals willing to read and respond to forums, it doesn't hurt to ask.
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I'll throw my hat in on "no" for XREFing title block graphics. It sounds good, and if the drawings only stay internal on your own system it might be OK. But if drawings go back to a client, or as a client they have to be sent to an EPC, management becomes an unnecessary issue. Drawing content? Models? Absolutely. But not title blocks.
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.....notice that printing and plotting becomes a know factor, no need to preview, no need for LISP or other code, it just works
Thanks for ^^^^^^^^
I still can't get people to "see" this, even after demonstrating it live.
They still want to type in PLOT, pick a window (even when printing from a layout), preview, cancel the preview, then print....
aaaaarrrrrggggg... why people....why?
People in general are reluctant to adopt new methods.
Now IF there was a chance they would be eaten or killed by something like a Sabre Cat, or a Mastodon, they would adapt a lot quicker.
Or be instantly removed from the gene pool.
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I'll throw my hat in on "no" for XREFing title block graphics. It sounds good, and if the drawings only stay internal on your own system it might be OK. But if drawings go back to a client, or as a client they have to be sent to an EPC, management becomes an unnecessary issue. Drawing content? Models? Absolutely. But not title blocks.
Etransmit much?
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I'll throw my hat in on "no" for XREFing title block graphics. It sounds good, and if the drawings only stay internal on your own system it might be OK. But if drawings go back to a client, or as a client they have to be sent to an EPC, management becomes an unnecessary issue. Drawing content? Models? Absolutely. But not title blocks.
Etransmit much?
We xref TBs all the time and as mjfarrel mentions, you can e-transmit the files and bind/insert the TBs when necessary, all in one big swoop.
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I agree on no xrefs, nothing wrong with them, but even with e-transmit, I have had clients get completely lost and befuddled.. so I just avoid them. Not because they are bad in anyway, but because my set of clients don't do well with them.
Pukenzz.. sent you a private message, want to send you some examples.
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I'll throw my hat in on "no" for XREFing title block graphics. It sounds good, and if the drawings only stay internal on your own system it might be OK. But if drawings go back to a client, or as a client they have to be sent to an EPC, management becomes an unnecessary issue. Drawing content? Models? Absolutely. But not title blocks.
Etransmit much?
We xref TBs all the time and as mjfarrel mentions, you can e-transmit the files and bind/insert the TBs when necessary, all in one big swoop.
Same here.
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Trying not to hijcack *too* much here... I've got rational reasons for this, its not just blind opposition.
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Trying not to hijcack *too* much here... I've got rational reasons for this, its not just blind opposition.
Understood.
I was offering our/my procedure because your issue seemed to be about file management and file sharing outside the office.
Sharing ideas is always a good thing and helps everyone.
But as you say, we all have our reasons for doing what we do.
[cheers]
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I agree on no xrefs, nothing wrong with them, but even with e-transmit, I have had clients get completely lost and befuddled.. so I just avoid them.
Any client, partner, sub, etc. that can't handle receiving an eTransmit package, probably just needs to get a PDF set of the drawings.
AutoCAD and .DWG files are not for them. :-)
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When and where is the big sit down so we can all get together and see these things pros & cons in a room together. The forum is awesome. You all have helped me so much over the years and I'm grateful. Sometimes it just easier in person.
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I agree on no xrefs, nothing wrong with them, but even with e-transmit, I have had clients get completely lost and befuddled.. so I just avoid them.
Any client, partner, sub, etc. that can't handle receiving an eTransmit package, probably just needs to get a PDF set of the drawings.
AutoCAD and .DWG files are not for them. :)
Your right, but they pay the bill so they get it however they ask for it.
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Have clients that do not accept xrefs and just etransmit and use insert/bind option.
If not using SSM just use text as would be easier than work around just to use fields
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Pukenzz,
Did you take a look at the example HERE (https://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=50812.msg560026#msg560026) ?
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Yes I looked. Still wrapping my head around all the feedback I've been getting from everybody.
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Late to the party, I used fields and dwgprops. I used lisp/.net routines to copy/add/remove/swap values between dwgs.
I did a setup at one company, that would import from the bidding program, everything we could think of was imported, material, hardware , etc..
there’s a lot you can do with fields 8-)