Topic: dynamic label for diff between two surfaces

[jcoon]

Is there a way to add dynamic labels with screen selected points or points groups that display the difference between the selected surface and the points.

[huiz]

Maybe there is some option to use expressions to calculate the difference.

But another way I mostly use is to create a Volume Surface, give it a style non-visible, and add spot elevation labels on it. Those labels show the difference between the two surfaces.

[mjfarrell]

Is there a way to add dynamic labels with screen selected points or points groups that display the difference between the selected surface and the points.

The EASY way

Create a VOLUME Surface, and place "elevation" labels on it. Actual elevation is the Difference between the Two surfaces.

The HARD way......

I'll think of something

[jcoon]

I was looking at the expressions but I did see anything right away to select a surface. I've never used them that much other than for very simple + or -  elev labels

Higgs boson's mate,

place elevation labels?  how can I select the existing points locations without picking point locations for spot shot type labels? I want to use the point locations for the xy location of the diff in elevation labels.

I'm looking to have existing points in may drawing and basically query the diff in elevation from the points and the selected surface. In the end I wanted to  change the property name on the surface it is looking at to update the labels. Is that something that can be done in regular civil 3d.  I have vba routines I've written to label these in LDT and didn't want to have to update these for C3D if I can find a workbale solution straight out of c3D

Thanks
John

[mjfarrell]

Higgs boson's mate,

place elevation labels?  how can I select the existing points locations without picking point locations for spot shot type labels? I want to use the point locations for the xy location of the diff in elevation labels.

I'm looking to have existing points in may drawing and basically query the diff in elevation from the points and the selected surface. In the end I wanted to  change the property name on the surface it is looking at to update the labels. Is that something that can be done in regular civil 3d.  I have vba routines I've written to label these in LDT and didn't want to have to update these for C3D if I can find a workbale solution straight out of c3D

Thanks
John

Thanks for adding clarity to the task you want to accomplish here.
It's Q/A stuff like this that allows my students to go further from my training than any Autodesk vendor, or cad camp sponsored classes.


John, Expressions will not be the route one would want to take.

The method you want to use is a variation on the following.
If I am not clear enough here PM me with your number and I'll walk you through it.

Export your Existing ground points to CSV
Set the Points Style Override to the group containing ALL of them to NO Display for BOTH the label and the Point Object
Save the file with a NEW name, and delete the Elevation information from all points.
Create your Second Surface,
Then create your Volume Surface,
Next Import the Points file with NO ELEVATION information,

Select ALL of these points>>The Quick Launch Panel of the Ribbon will then change to the COGO Points panel, or you can issue the _AeccEditPointSurfaceElevs command be sure to select the volume surface when prompted, this will then move all of the Points locations from the EG model up to the Volume Surface (difference in elevation) at the SAME location as you desire for exact comparison.

One could also do this using XDREF's only the above is probably much simpler. well probably not that much should one have a grasp of XDREFs and Pivot Tables in Excel.

Let me know how it goes.

[sinc]

Here's the EASY way:

http://www.quuxsoft.com/SincpacC3D_Help/SP_DLPoints.htm

It even lets you create dynamic Cut/Fill tables, all from within Civil 3D, as shown here:

http://www.quuxsoft.com/videos/DynamicCutFillTable.aspx

It's third-party software, but if you do much of this, the $175 investment will pay for itself very quickly.

[mjfarrell]

Here's the EASY way:

Perhaps I should have called my method the FREE and EASY way!   

[jcoon]

Higgs

_AeccEditPointSurfaceElevs
I've tried that before, it does about 75 percent of what I need for display purposes. it displays the diff in elevation as needed, However I want/need to show the original point elevation and the diff in elev. see attached image. triangles indicate location of penetration with diff in elevation, magenta text and box indicate locations within ten feet of surface. projects are for tree clearing to airport approach surfaces.

If I can't find a solution out of the box then I'll just update my vba routine to work with c3D. I was hoping I could do this in c3D with a dynamic link.
I'll take a look at the xdref. I did something with that many years ago in LDT

John   

[mjfarrell]

Higgs

_AeccEditPointSurfaceElevs
I've tried that before, it does about 75 percent of what I need for display purposes. it displays the diff in elevation as needed, However I want/need to show the original point elevation and the diff in elev. see attached image. triangles indicate location of penetration with diff in elevation, magenta text and box indicate locations within ten feet of surface. projects are for tree clearing to airport approach surfaces.

If I can't find a solution out of the box then I'll just update my vba routine to work with c3D. I was hoping I could do this in c3D with a dynamic link.
I'll take a look at the xdref. I did something with that many years ago in LDT

John

For this we need to think outside the box. 

If I understand the need (further); this would suggest that the Original points within the area of interest be added to a Group and that they be given a style that shows the Existing ground elevation as desired. 
Then modify the style for the points applied to the Volume surface so that the elevation is OFFSET in such a manner that one can read the Existing Ground Elevation and the Difference Elevation when the two points are overlying each other.
Basically two points in the same location with the text component modified to display the information as desired.
     Point Number (if needed)
X   Point Elevation (Existing) Point Elevation (difference from Volume surface)
     Point Description (if Needed)

     112
X   1323.4  ( -2.56 )
     EG

[sinc]

Here's the EASY way:

Perhaps I should have called my method the FREE and EASY way!   

Your "free and easy" method isn't dynamic, and doesn't let you create the dynamic Cut/Fill table.  The XDREF method is...  well, definitely not as easy.

But there's lots of ways to do things.  Whatever works for you.

[mjfarrell]

Here's the EASY way:

Perhaps I should have called my method the FREE and EASY way!   

Your "free and easy" method isn't dynamic, and doesn't let you create the dynamic Cut/Fill table.  The XDREF method is...  well, definitely not as easy.

But there's lots of ways to do things.  Whatever works for you.

As the points are attached to a surface why would they not then be dynamic?
As to having a table that would be accomplished through a QTO criteria, if that was what the user was after.

Note: they were waved off of using XDREF.

[jcoon]

Higgs,

Now that is thinking outside "my box"


wait........after looking at the point labels I don't see a property for a surface.  however if I use the general labels I have access to a surface property
but I don't see a way of inserting the new general label at the locations of the existing point location.

if the reference text was exposed to the point label I'd have it made in the shade, without it, it seems like I'm doing more work managing labels and points

I'm still looking

John

[mjfarrell]

you ar not going to be using REFERENCE text...you've gone back inside the box.
You are showing two sets of points...Existing, and the ones that were moved UP to the volume surface
perhaps I should call you and explain, send me a number

[Jeff_M]

As the points are attached to a surface why would they not then be dynamic?

Points can be dynamic to a surface (without using Sincpac-C3D)? I know surfaces react to points when used to build the surface. And I know you can set existing points to the elevation of a surface, but I'm not sure how those would be dynamic.

[jcoon]

Higgs,

sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you were talking about using one point to display the existing elevation and the elevation coming from the volume surface. I guess having the volume surface elevation updated by changing which surface name is a plus even if I have to manage two sets of points.

In the future having the ability to attach a property from a reference object to a point would be very valuable.  I'm not sure if anything like that is available in the API currently. if it was I'd still need to find time to get back into dot net to find a final solution.

John Coon

[mjfarrell]

I had a dream, that there might even be another way to do this...
We'll soon see if Coffee and Sunlight reduce that dream to vapor, or if the process proves possible.

[sinc]

In the future having the ability to attach a property from a reference object to a point would be very valuable.  I'm not sure if anything like that is available in the API currently. if it was I'd still need to find time to get back into dot net to find a final solution.

You can do that, if you have lots of time and want to learn .NET.  The ability to extend Autocad has always been one of its key strengths over other solutions like Bentley or Carlson, which are far weaker in this regard.  But if you bill yourself out at more than $10 an hour, I can pretty much guarantee you'll spend more in lost time coming up with your own routine than you'd spend purchasing the third-party product mentioned earlier.  Not to mention, the third-party product gives you several other powerful tools in addition to this one.  And with your own solution, you'll also get locked into upgrading it every year before you can move up to the latest version of C3D.  So unless you really want to learn programming, or unless you have no paying work and are looking for something to do, it isn't a cost-effective use of your time.

I've noticed there's two distinct personalities among C3D users.  There's one set of people who view C3D as a "challenge", and like to find ways to force it into submission, even if the solution takes a long time to do, or is very elaborate, time-consuming, or difficult, because of the self-satisfaction that comes from out-thinking the software.  Then there's the people who like to get their work done quickly and easily.  Third-party solutions like the Sincpac-C3D are for this second group.

[mjfarrell]

We have implemented a fair simple solution using a general note label, two pieces of reference text, and a few lines of LISP courtesy of Mr. Lee Mac.  Currently being tested.

Trust I would be the last to downplay the efficacy to solve many ills for Civil 3D users of the SincPAK.

[drizzt]

you can make the cut fill labels from a volume surface dynamic, just set the vol surface to automatic rebuild. Not sure what the difference is between this and what you are doing Higgs

[mjfarrell]

you can make the cut fill labels from a volume surface dynamic, just set the vol surface to automatic rebuild. Not sure what the difference is between this and what you are doing Higgs

the difference is that the user wants to show Existing and the Cut/Fill difference at the EXACT same location as the Exisitng points are/were at.
So that's what we are accomplishing.

Also note I suggested Volume Surface already...it didn't meet their needs.

[drizzt]

ok got ya!

[mjfarrell]

you can make the cut fill labels from a volume surface dynamic, just set the vol surface to automatic rebuild. Not sure what the difference is between this and what you are doing Higgs

note, the labels will be dynamic even if the surface rebuild option is set to auto or not