Topic: toolbars. No this is not your typical question.

[daron]

I'm in the process of setting up a toolbar for everyone I deal with to use. I want to know, and I just tried a limited test, if everybody is using the same mns file to load and one person changes the placement of the toolbar, will this affect every other person using this toolbar? My findings were that it didn't affect anybody else. Do I need to test it further or can someone explain how the same file can be read in different positions on different computers?

Also, what would be the best practices to ensuring that one person doesn't add, move to another menu or delete any buttons? I would assume that if someone were to do this, it should affect everybody elses menu too. About a month ago I set up a toolbar independently on another persons computer. I think he didn't like the separation of toolbars, so he moved the ones I gave him into another toolbar, which happened to be on the acad toolbar. Mine is not. He later asked why the button I gave him were smileys? I found that the buttons weren't able to read the dll anymore, since they were no longer in the right toolbar menu. Outside of training, which I'll have to do, is there anything I can do to ensure that nobody can customize the toolbars?

[t-bear]

Tape their fingers to the back of their heads....for the stubborn ones I use nails.....

[daron]

Then what I do about getting them to do their job? Sounds catch 22ish.

[ELOQUINTET]

typical daron question

[ronjonp]

Daron,

I believe the locations of the toolbars will remain intact on everyones machine since the location is stored in the registry. As for not customizing it, just make the mns file read only so no changes can be saved to it.

Ron

[ELOQUINTET]

don't recall what version you use daron but in 2004 there is tbcustomize (off) i believe.

[CADaver]

The toolbar locations are held in registry so that shouldn't be a problem.  

As for the customization end, here's what I do.  The main menus are in read only network directories.  I'm the only one that can diddle with those.  I use the menu's MNL to load menu/client specific functions, that way any new customization is available for everyone.

For personal toolbars, we have a personal.mns stored locally that is menuloaded behind everything else.  Users are free to diddle with these to their heart's content (as long as production is maintained).

[daron]

I thought the position of the toolbar was in the menu file. Good to know it's in the registry. I wonder where that is in LT. I haven't been able to find them. I'll look into seeing if my ITCF (IT Control Freaks) can hook me up with a read-only folder. Like pulling teeth.

Thanks

[pringals]

We use to have this problem all the time when I worked in a "cubical farm" of drafters. Whenever the "house" toolbars were tampered with, disciplinary  action was taken. The typical verbal warning, written warning, suspension, then ultimately termination. As a CAD manager now, I look back and realize the pain in the ass I was for our CAD manager then. I can't stand not tweaking or customizing Autocad to the way I like it. Lately, I've been spending some time reading in the CAD Manager's section over at Autodesk's Discussion Groups. Click Here Several good ideas have been mentioned. One that sounds the best is to create a toolbar just for individuals to customize and store it to their local machine. Let them go willy nilly with that one, but enforce the Non tamper issue for the "house" tools. This way, drafters can feel free to explore customization and not feel limited in their job. That is a terrible feeling when you are trying to get ahead. Giving them this opportunity could even help the company out. Perhaps there is someone in the group that is capable of very productive customizations that the company can benefit from leading to a bonus for that individual, pushing him to feel appreciated and therefore he will be even more inspired and productive. Limitation is a negative feeling. Negativity leads to nowhere in the work force. By the method mentioned above, everyone can feel like they are capable of moving forward.


Brian

p.s. ... fyi .... This personal custom toolbar is built into autocad 2005.

[Keith™]

By default the MNS file CAN identify the location of the toolbar when it is first loaded.

Here is an excerpt from the help file

 The toolbar definition includes the keyword Toolbar and a series of options that are contained in parentheses. The options define the display characteristics of the toolbar.

TAG1 [Toolbar ("tbarname", orient, visible, xval, yval, rows)]
The options are as follows:

tbarname

The string that names the toolbar. The string must include alphanumeric characters with no punctuation other than a dash (–) or an underscore (_). With this name (along with the alias) the toolbar can be referenced programmatically.

orient

The orientation of the toolbar. The values are floating, top, bottom, left, and right and are not case-sensitive.

visible

The visibility of the toolbar. The values, show and hide, are not case-sensitive.

xval

A numeric value specifying the X coordinate in pixels. This value is measured from the left edge of the screen to the left side of the toolbar.

yval

A numeric value specifying the Y coordinate in pixels. This value is measured from the top edge of the screen to the top of the toolbar.

rows

A numeric value specifying the number of rows.

The folllowing example is the first few lines of the Zoom toolbar in acad.mnu:

**TB_ZOOM
ID_TbZoom [_Toolbar("Zoom", _Floating, _Hide, 100, 380, 1)]
ID_ZoomWindo [Button("Zoom Window", ICON_16_ZOOWIN, ICON_16_ZOOWIN,)]'_zoom_w
ID_ZoomDynam [Button("Zoom Dynamic", ICON_16_ZOODYN, ICON_16_ZOODYN,)]'_zoom_d
ID_ZoomScale [Button("Zoom Scale", ICON_16_ZOOSCA, ICON_16_ZOOSCA,)]'_zoom_s

[CADaver]

By default the MNS file CAN identify the location of the toolbar when it is first loaded.

Very true, the mneu determines which toolbars are visible and where they are when the menu is compiled.  After that the active toolbars and their locations are held in registry and controlled by the profile.  You can set up different profiles to display different toolbars, depending on what you're doing at the time.

[Trev]

Daron, one method you could use is when the user logs onto the network you upload the new MNS, MNR & MNC files overwriting the older versions.
Then if they make changes it won't matter. Except if they do make any changes/additions they will loose them each time you upload a new menu.

[daron]

That is true Trev. I hadn't really put too much thought into it. I suppose I was planning that by default, since I will be the only one not using the one-for-all toolbar. I was planning on using the master copy on my own machine. Then, when I upgrade it, it should upgrade everyone elses when they log in next time on their computer. At least that's my hope. My biggest confusion is how I can do this and allow the other users to keep their original desired position. If it is as Cadaver says and the position is stored in the registry, is the rest of the menu then, also stored in the registry, or does that change each time I upgrade the mns file? This is the area I'm unsure about.

Oh yeah, remember I'm working with both sides of Autocad. The full version has profiles, but the LT version does not. LT sucks. May it be the demise of Autodesk. Eh, probably not, since the people who buy have no clue as to how bad it is. Most people call LT the student version. Shows how much they know.

I'll definately ponder all your thoughts. Thanks.

[ronjonp]

If it is as Cadaver says and the position is stored in the registry, is the rest of the menu then, also stored in the registry, or does that change each time I upgrade the mns file? This is the area I'm unsure about.

Cadaver is right.  The toolbars will stay put even if you customize it. I've been working with this type of system for about 3 years now and haven't had any complaints. The only difference is, I have this mns file copied to each user's C:\Program Files\AutoCAD 2002\Support\  folder at startup. This file is overwitten if modify date is older than one on network (same for resource dlls, and lisps).

Ron

[CADaver]

If it is as Cadaver says and the position is stored in the registry, is the rest of the menu then, also stored in the registry, or does that change each time I upgrade the mns file? This is the area I'm unsure about.

I"ve been running a networked menu for a little over 5 years here and it's been pretty smooth for the most part.  A couple of hints though:

1.)  Don't change the names of the toolbars in the MNS

2.)  Make new toolbars _FLOATING (Some where near the middle of the screen) and _SHOW.  That way users are informed of new tools.

3.)  Use different specific menugroup names for each different menu.

4.)  Use your own personal menu for modifications until you're compfortable with it, then update the master menu.

5.)  ... more as I can remember them ...

Oh yeah, remember I'm working with both sides of Autocad. The full version has profiles, but the LT version does not. LT sucks.

don't know nuttin' 'bout no LT version...
(second verse)
don't wanna know nuttin' 'bout no LT version
(third verse)
would say I'm sorry 'bout that... but I ain't.