Topic: Autocad 2008 arrival and distribution

[Josh Nieman]

I just got 2008 in today.

I read the new features book and haven't had a chance to install it yet (too much work to do to pause)  and was wondering...

I am responsible for the CAD support, deployment, and standardization of the company's CAD software, and am thinking about putting together a little manual for each person to read over while they install the software to get them familiar with new features.  Does anyone do this?  If so, why.  And if you deliberately do not; why not?

Benefits: These guys would be more likely to read something I put together than they would the Adesk manual.  If I give them the new features book, I predict they'll flip through "yadda yadda, mumbo jumbo, I'll figure it out as I go" but whenever I put something together as a handout or guide, they generally take pretty good heed to it, pin it on their board if needed, whatever.  This is mostly due to me being pretty selective about what I hand out, so I don't hand out things and they just go "Yea yea another weekly handout from Josh... *crumple crumple* *file 13*"

Cons: Time spent repeated what's already written in the manual and the new features workshop that pops up when you install. 


I see a lot of things that'd really benefit us and want to make sure they take the time to use them.  They're constantly in near-awe in some of the things I do, because they don't know what is out there for them (dynamic blocks [it's like I turned them on to crack], fields in text and title blocks, background mask for mtext and dimensions, and using rotated dimensions instead of aligned dimensions) but they are hesitant to take the time to learn new features.  So basically I want them to use the downtime associated with upgrading version to learn some new tools.

Should I just tell them to read the New Features Workshop, and toss 'em the book, or put some effort into a handout?  Does anyone with more experience know if they've gotten better results... meaning.... is it worth my time?

[dan19936]

I never expected the staff to actually read the new features, only a few of the more computer focused would spend any time learning on their own. We would just do CAD lunch meetings where the features were presented, with an online cad manual that had meeting notes of the features presented.

Otherwise regular cad meetings (1/month), where tips, techniques & standards were presented.

Dan

[Kerry]

............ Should I just tell them to read the New Features Workshop, and toss 'em the book, ............

"There WILL be a test"

[Josh Nieman]

I never expected the staff to actually read the new features, only a few of the more computer focused would spend any time learning on their own. We would just do CAD lunch meetings where the features were presented, with an online cad manual that had meeting notes of the features presented.

Otherwise regular cad meetings (1/month), where tips, techniques & standards were presented.

Dan

Yea, they've expressed interest in coming in one weekend day and doing some CAD lessons, but that was mainly in the interest of migrating to 3d tools... one of my ongoing tasks is to sometime set up a regular (once a month sounds good) lunch-n-learn or weekend "class" for CAD lessons but... everyone here (including me) is so busy with the flood of work, it's hard.  We all work overtime (and often times weekends) as it is... to try and waste a saturday mid-morning here as well.

The other thing is that all my time gets billed.  If I need dedicated time for CAD Management stuff, I pretty much do it while I eat lunch or while working on another project that has relevance to the tool I'm developing.... meaning I don't have much time to spend developing an intranet file for reference or teaching or even a class-type lesson plan

[Krushert]

Yea, they've expressed interest in coming in one weekend day and doing some CAD lessons, but that was mainly in the interest of migrating to 3d tools... one of my ongoing tasks is to sometime set up a regular (once a month sounds good) lunch-n-learn or weekend "class" for CAD lessons but... everyone here (including me) is so busy with the flood of work, it's hard.  We all work overtime (and often times weekends) as it is... to try and waste a saturday mid-morning here as well.
I have the same problem here.  Except that sometimes I think that they dont want to learn the new stuff that can save them boat-loads of time.

I would sort thru the new features menu once you have installed 08 on your machine.  A lot of these new features (for 07 anyway) where in video format.  Just sort thru the ones that have the most Shock-n-Awe affect (beneficial to your company) and then learn the tools yourself (meaning play with the new tools).  When your are comfortable; have a lunch-learn with your system hook to an overhead projector (if you have access to one).  Play the video to them and then demonstrate the new tool with current project.   And don't forget to bait your trap.  Pizza works best.  Try to get the bosses to buy, it's a business expense.

My one cents worth

The other thing is that all my time gets billed.  If I need dedicated time for CAD Management stuff, I pretty much do it while I eat lunch or while working on another project that has relevance to the tool I'm developing.... meaning I don't have much time to spend developing an intranet file for reference or teaching or even a class-type lesson plan

  Hey everyone, Josh just dug up and threw that dead horse back into the street so we can all go beat on it again.

[Josh Nieman]

I know... I don't mean to complain, because even though it's a new world to me, it became glaringly obvious in my communal interactions here and elsewhere that it IS a dead horse and all too common... which is the same song anyone will here from overhead positions in any company.

My dad is a maintenance man by trade, having worked for a couple different steel mills and the song is always "Might get laid off soon" because some managerial type has it in his mind that there's no money being made off the cost of keeping maintenance staff, therefore they should not be paid.  Silly because we all think "Well if machines aren't maintained... they break... then there is no production."  but bean counters don't always think right, do they?

Anyways, rant aside, it's not a mandate from management or anything like that, that keeps me having to be 100% billable... I've just asked the principal engineers here (who also do billing, payroll, etc tasks... small small company) how to handle time spent on overhead things, and the response is just "What job are you on currently?  Just charge it to that..."  ... I can't bring myself to blow holes in budgets because I spent 4 hours completing the CAD Manual that I've been needing to do for months.  It's unethical in my opinion.  Well... bah, that's battles of my own I guess.

I've been using 2k8 since my first post, and I'm super impressed btw.  I think a lunch-n-learn would be the best bet.  We don't have a projector, but one thing I used to do at the last company for client-presentations was to hook up the biggest monitor in the place to the boss's laptop, and twirl the 3d models around and all that OOH-and-AHH stuff that sold products... that way I could use the laptop, and they could see it on the big display.

I don't think it'll be a problem getting a pizza luncheon in the works though.  They put lunch on the company card from time to time even when we're just goin' out for burgers and beer, heh.

Thanks for the responses so far.  I just didn't know if this was something that is normal to do for someone taking on these responsibilities... I almost wish I'd worked for a bigger company before so I could see what a CAD Manager is like in action and would at least have a model to work from, whether it'd be how to do it, or how NOT to, heh.

[Krushert]

I know... I don't mean to complain, because even though it's a new world to me, it became glaringly obvious in my communal interactions here and elsewhere that it IS a dead horse and all too common... which is the same song anyone will here from overhead positions in any company.

My dad is a maintenance man by trade, having worked for a couple different steel mills and the song is always "Might get laid off soon" because some managerial type has it in his mind that there's no money being made off the cost of keeping maintenance staff, therefore they should not be paid.  Silly because we all think "Well if machines aren't maintained... they break... then there is no production."  but bean counters don't always think right, do they?

Anyways, rant aside, it's not a mandate from management or anything like that, that keeps me having to be 100% billable... I've just asked the principal engineers here (who also do billing, payroll, etc tasks... small small company) how to handle time spent on overhead things, and the response is just "What job are you on currently?  Just charge it to that..."  ... I can't bring myself to blow holes in budgets because I spent 4 hours completing the CAD Manual that I've been needing to do for months.  It's unethical in my opinion.  Well... bah, that's battles of my own I guess.

I know what your are talking about. been there done that, just got done doing that.  I came to realization of where to bill Cad management by using the straight face test.  Can it pass it before the client with a straight face?  That is how I do it and you will find your own way as others on this site here have. 

My posting the dead horse comment had two motives; one to harass you just for the heck of it and the other to head off possible hijackings of this thread that has proven to be a very opinionated subject however enlightening.  And I did not take it as complaining, a very valid question.

I've been using 2k8 since my first post, and I'm super impressed btw.  I think a lunch-n-learn would be the best bet.  We don't have a projector, but one thing I used to do at the last company for client-presentations was to hook up the biggest monitor in the place to the boss's laptop, and twirl the 3d models around and all that OOH-and-AHH stuff that sold products... that way I could use the laptop, and they could see it on the big display.

I don't think it'll be a problem getting a pizza luncheon in the works though.  They put lunch on the company card from time to time even when we're just goin' out for burgers and beer, heh.

Thanks for the responses so far.  I just didn't know if this was something that is normal to do for someone taking on these responsibilities... I almost wish I'd worked for a bigger company before so I could see what a CAD Manager is like in action and would at least have a model to work from, whether it'd be how to do it, or how NOT to, heh.

Cool, Let me know all the $500 tools so as I can have more ammunition for my case.   We haven't received ours yet but I am going to try convince the uppers to install in instead of the past practice of skipping over every other release. 

[dan19936]

Well when I was cad manager for a 25 person architectural firm, and a full-time project architect, I still took time away from billable work to do the cad. Just like I took away from billable work to do filling. (And I was salaried and worked overtime w/out extra compensation other than "attaboy's")

If your firm won't let you put any time on office hours, and you don't want to burn one job with the hours, ask if you can prorate the time on all currently active jobs.

In my experience, whenever the cad management doen't get actual dedicated time, it doesn't happen.

[pmvliet]

am thinking about putting together a little manual for each person to read over while they install the software to get them familiar with new features.

This statement might concern me in more ways then one and is dependent on the number of users you have. I haven't installed 2008 yet, but more and more software has various choices when installing. I personally would not want ten different people installing their software which is dependant on items on a server (search paths)(licensing)(express tools)(etc).

As far as a "joshersized manual", if it works for your users then stick with it(hardcopy). I'd lean a little more toward an electronic medium either via a template file that first opens up or something else along those lines. Autocad people are ones who like to fiddle and play rather then just read. Face it, installing software is about as fun as watching grass grow. Which means that an electronic format would not work "while" installing.

Since you aren't given a whole lot of time toward this venture, I'd go through the "what's new in 2008" and condense a list to what will really help your users or "more bang for your buck". You might see if your boss would opt for a 4 hour time period for you to spend with your users in regards to some new features. Kind of like a crash course training for 2008... (long shot)

Lunch-n-learns are so valuable as it shows all that attend some really good stuff. Document your lunch-n-learns with PDF's and post that on a intranet if availabe or in a dedicated folder on the network. This will allow you to update one central file and give your users one central place to get information. Do not encourage your users to copy these files for their own use/storage.

Pieter

[Josh Nieman]

am thinking about putting together a little manual for each person to read over while they install the software to get them familiar with new features.

This statement might concern me in more ways then one and is dependent on the number of users you have. I haven't installed 2008 yet, but more and more software has various choices when installing. I personally would not want ten different people installing their software which is dependant on items on a server (search paths)(licensing)(express tools)(etc).

We have 4 other people besides me who will be installing it.  One I plan to do it FOR, the other's I sent an email out about what to do (like making sure Express Tools is installed) as well as using the migration utility to make sure I don't have to set up their system all over again... although I did discover that the migration utility, though awesome, has it's flaws... for some unknown reason it only copied about 90% of my personally added .pgp commands... curious.

As far as a "joshersized manual", if it works for your users then stick with it(hardcopy). I'd lean a little more toward an electronic medium either via a template file that first opens up or something else along those lines. Autocad people are ones who like to fiddle and play rather then just read. Face it, installing software is about as fun as watching grass grow. Which means that an electronic format would not work "while" installing.

Since you aren't given a whole lot of time toward this venture, I'd go through the "what's new in 2008" and condense a list to what will really help your users or "more bang for your buck". You might see if your boss would opt for a 4 hour time period for you to spend with your users in regards to some new features. Kind of like a crash course training for 2008... (long shot)

Lunch-n-learns are so valuable as it shows all that attend some really good stuff. Document your lunch-n-learns with PDF's and post that on a intranet if availabe or in a dedicated folder on the network. This will allow you to update one central file and give your users one central place to get information. Do not encourage your users to copy these files for their own use/storage.

Pieter

I sent out an email before I left last night to the uppers about a lunch'n'learn shortly down the road, and about dedicated time for immediately vital standardization materials (CAD Manual and some standard drawing elements past just the title block) so we'll see how that goes.

[pmvliet]

It doesn't hurt to ask... You will learn that as the more you do, the better your users get.
make sure the users mention things to the managers and powers above to drive the point accross...

Every once in a while, try to get some type of benchmark of utilizing a new tool or lisp routine.
This will give actual numbers towards usage or time saved compared to an old method.
Management loves numbers/data in this format...

Pieter

[Josh Nieman]

It doesn't hurt to ask... You will learn that as the more you do, the better your users get.
make sure the users mention things to the managers and powers above to drive the point accross...

Every once in a while, try to get some type of benchmark of utilizing a new tool or lisp routine.
This will give actual numbers towards usage or time saved compared to an old method.
Management loves numbers/data in this format...

Pieter

Well considering 3 of the 4 users other than me ARE management...

Definitely something to keep in mind as we get more and more hires though... thank you for the great tips

[ronjonp]

And as you hire more people, creating a silent deployment on the network will save you tons of time.

Add something like this to the login script:

if %USERNAME% == username "link to deployment"

Ron

[Josh Nieman]

Cool, Let me know all the $500 tools so as I can have more ammunition for my case.   We haven't received ours yet but I am going to try convince the uppers to install in instead of the past practice of skipping over every other release. 

http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=15706.new

I was just ranting on about the new features that I like over there... I can't give you any numbers but I'm sure you can project some educated expectations to persuade them.  This release is all about productivity and efficiency, containing little fluff.  Skipping every other release I think is a bad scheme... if anything skip every third release... they seem to release in a pattern of 3.

1 - New file version (2004, 2007) with big changes to format, settings, and such (like the 3d in 2007)
2 - Efficiency, tools, productivity, and fixes to the big change on last release
3 - Speeding up the program, fine tuning it, and really tightening the tolerances.
1 - Undoing everything the last release was for, and starting with a new version again... (2010)

[Josh Nieman]

And as you hire more people, creating a silent deployment on the network will save you tons of time.

Add something like this to the login script:

if %USERNAME% == username "link to deployment"

Ron

Yea, I don't do any of that kind of stuff... we do standalone installs and I have no knowledge of scripting basically.  Our boss manages the network and we have an outside IT guy when the poop hits the propellers.

One of the things on my to-do list is to get all support paths mapped to the network, but I need to get a good standard set of resources before I can map everything to the network.  I want to get everyone with the same toolbars, lin files, block libraries, resources... but right now it's impossible.  Working on that though.

[ronjonp]

One of the cool things about the deployed image is the ability to preset\add any support path as well as include service packs, add addition files....etc.

That will help when you get everyone's paths networked.

Ron

[Draftek]

4 users?

Try 150.

[Josh Nieman]

4 users?

Try 150.

.... no

[Draftek]

Good Answer...