Topic: terminology and concept whinge

[Kerry]

[whinge]

as an example of the axiom that some problems can be solved by asking the question correctly ...

Can someone tell me how to copy all the object in a dwg file for a selected layer into the active layer.

The problem is solved as soon as most people realize that you don't move/copy the object to a layer  ; you actually change the layer property of the entity.

[/whinge]

[Keith™]

You are very correct ... unless of course the person wanted 2 identical objects, except layer of course, one on top of the other ... I have seen this "needed" before, but the reason for its need was an unwillingless to modify the way they did other things.

[Bob Wahr]

I'll give you your point.  A lot of the questions that get asked make me really wonder at their level of general CAD understanding.  In your example though, if the person is from a microstation background, it is understandable as that is the actual method for doing it.  At least it used to be, they may have changed it since.

[CADaver]

[whinge]

as an example of the axiom that some problems can be solved by asking the question correctly ...

Can someone tell me how to copy all the object in a dwg file for a selected layer into the active layer.

The problem is solved as soon as most people realize that you don't move/copy the object to a layer  ; you actually change the layer property of the entity.

[/whinge]

ummm... originally, in AutoCAD, you used the "MOVE" command to move objects to different layers...

[sinc]

ummm... originally, in AutoCAD, you used the "MOVE" command to move objects to different layers...

If "MOVE" originally changed layers, then how did people "MOVE" things?


There actually IS a "Copy Objects to New Layer" command, that will copy all selected items to another selected layer, and leave the originals on the original layer.

There's also Layer Merge, so if you don't want the layer the items are currently on, you can use Layer Merge to put the objects on the desired layer and get rid of the undesired layer in one step.

Maybe the problem is the original question was rather vague, and there are SO MANY DIFFERENT ways of performing the task, that not enough information was given, so it's impossible to determine what might be the best command/process for the original questioner to use?

[Bob Wahr]

ummm... originally, in AutoCAD, you used the "MOVE" command to move objects to different layers...

If "MOVE" originally changed layers, then how did people "MOVE" things?
<snip>

Assuming that it worked the same way that Microstation did (does) the process for moving something is MOVE, select stuff, base point, choose displacement point

The process for changing a layer is MOVE, select stuff, base point, choose desired layer

Before my time.  I've been driving acad since 2.something, but there has always been a change command for me.

[CADaver]

ummm... originally, in AutoCAD, you used the "MOVE" command to move objects to different layers...

If "MOVE" originally changed layers, then how did people "MOVE" things?

Same command, different modifier.

Maybe the problem is the original question was rather vague, and there are SO MANY DIFFERENT ways of performing the task, that not enough information was given, so it's impossible to determine what might be the best command/process for the original questioner to use?

Questions come from the perspective of the questioner in his context.  "What's that?" is extremely vague here on the 'net, but may be very pointed in the questioner's context.  Asking "How do you draw a circle?" will get different responses from the "General Forum" tahn it will from the ".NET Forum".

It is a rare individual that can pose a question within another's context.  That's why many questions posted here at theSwamp, get replies that are additional questions.

[Kerry]

<snip>
It is a rare individual that can pose a question within another's context.  <snip>

The question was asked in a .NET programming forum, how does that affect your context theory ?   

[Bob Wahr]

HSHS

[Civbert]

[whinge]

as an example of the axiom that some problems can be solved by asking the question correctly ...

Can someone tell me how to copy all the object in a dwg file for a selected layer into the active layer.

The problem is solved as soon as most people realize that you don't move/copy the object to a layer  ; you actually change the layer property of the entity.

[/whinge]

That didn't solve the problem. The questions specifies that they wanted a "copy" of the objects on the active layer.  And the solution isn't the  "Copy Objects to New Layer" either.  That command will copy the objects onto a different layer, but it requires you to select the target layer from a list of all the layers in the drawing.   The user wants to essentially preselect the target layer by making it the active layer, then run a command that will require him to pick the objects he wants to copy, and hit Enter to execute the command. 

I have seen this "needed" before, but the reason for its need was an unwillingless to modify the way they did other things.

I myself have "needed" this command before.  I work on large civil projects where the design might involve trying different layout options.  So you draw up different preliminary layouts and put them in different layers.  But perhaps one option merely requires a few changes to prior layout.  Solution: copy the original layout to the new layer and make the changes to the copied layout. 
 
So it would be nice to have a command that copied the objects you select into the active layer without modifying the original objects, and without having to pick the target layer from a long list of layers.  It sounds like it should be a simple program.  Is it something a newbie could easily make?...This is just the kind of automation project I'm interested in doing as I learn how to program .NET/AutoCAD as a newbie.   

   

[Kerry]

< SNIP > The questions specifies that they wanted a "copy" of the objects on the active layer.< SNIP>

Do you mean you want another instance of the entities with their Layer property changed to the current layer ?

[Dinosaur]

< SNIP > The questions specifies that they wanted a "copy" of the objects on the active layer.< SNIP>

Do you mean you want another instance of the entities with their Layer property changed to the current layer ?

Indeed Kerry, it seems exactly what the original request was for and Civbert's interpretation thereof.  His was an excellent description of what might be required while a project manager and a client are developing the initial site layout or sketch plan for an overall project.  It is quite likely that neither of these guys have, want or need any CAD skills - only a visual representation of their ideas.  They also represent more salary sitting around waiting for the next picture than the CAD guy will make in a week.  Only the quickest and dirtiest solution may be acceptable - EVERYTHING on one layer for each idea would be exactly what they desire.  These plans will never be used for anything other than this purpose so any finesse normally applied to meet standards or visual style would be time wasted - line types and pen weights are generally irrelevant for this application.

[Civbert]

Do you mean you want another instance of the entities with their Layer property changed to the current layer ?

Pretty much.  DinØsaur got it too. 

Before the command "Copy Objects to New Layer" was was added to AutoCAD's Express Tools (v 2005?) the situation was worse.  Back then, to do this you had to select everything on the original layer (perhaps isolating the layer first, or using a filter if you knew how), then run COPY.  And you usually wanted to move it all to the side so you could select the copied objects without selecting any original objects.  Then you changed the layer property of the copied objects (again selecting a layer from a list of layers in the drawing which could be 5 layers or 30 layers), and then move the new objects back to the exact same point as before.  Then you'd want to turn off or lock the original layer so you can edit the objects on the new layer.   I was a real hassle. 

And I'm sure a knowledge drafter could have shown me some ways to do this much more efficiently - but I'm just and engineer.

So when the "Copy Objects to New Layer" command came in with the Express Tools, I was a happy camper.  It wasn't perfect, but it saved some step.

Now this guy I think wants to make a custom command that will do the following:

• Select all the objects on a specific layers
• Copy those objects to the active (or current) layer

And maybe assign it to a button too.

It sounds simple, but I suppose programmatically, it might be more complicated.

I'm think the first thing the command would do is ask the user to select the original layer, perhaps by picking an object from that layer.  Then it might ask the user if it should turn off the original layer.  To me it still sounds like a simple program.  But as a n00b, I wouldn't know where to start.  I can't even get the "HelloWorld" program to work. (see my post http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=20401.msg278169#msg278169.)  This is just the kind of specialized little program I want to be able to write.  So if anyone can help me get "HelloWorld" to run...

[CADaver]

Before the command "Copy Objects to New Layer" was was added to AutoCAD's Express Tools (v 2005?) the situation was worse.  Back then, to do this you had to select everything on the original layer (perhaps isolating the layer first, or using a filter if you knew how), then run COPY.  And you usually wanted to move it all to the side so you could select the copied objects without selecting any original objects.  Then you changed the layer property of the copied objects (again selecting a layer from a list of layers in the drawing which could be 5 layers or 30 layers), and then move the new objects back to the exact same point as before.  Then you'd want to turn off or lock the original layer so you can edit the objects on the new layer.   I was a real hassle. 

ummm... COPY ->Select Objects->BasePoint=0,0,0->ENTER->CHPROP->PREVIOUS->new layer.  A little cumbersome maybe, but "hassle"?

[Civbert]

...  It was a real hassle. 

ummm... COPY ->Select Objects->BasePoint=0,0,0->ENTER->CHPROP->PREVIOUS->new layer.  A little cumbersome maybe, but "hassle"?

Well if I knew the CHPROP command!...  But dammit CADaver I'm an engineer, not a draftsman! (said in the voice of Dr. McCoy from Star Trek). 

Yep, that would have been less of a hassle.  And I'm not surprised to find out a better way of doing things in CAD.  I used to work with a guy who really knew his stuff in AutoCAD - a true Cad Guru.  He scored in the top 10 in the world of AutoCAD users when he took an on-line test from AutoDesk - and stayed there for a long time.   I learned a lot from him, but only when I asked.